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Fallout: New Vegas

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Protagonist506 from 'MURICA Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Aug 12th 2019 at 4:36:35 PM

Depends on what you mean by "start".

I like New Vegas's early game quite a bit, but I'm largely indifferent to the Benny Arc. What I like about New Vegas's early game is that it feels genuinely quaint. You start in Goodsprings and the only real threats are wildlife and a group of pretty mundane criminals. It lets you work your way up.

By contrast, Fallout 3 in its early game has you nuke a giant monster and Fallout 4 gives you power armor and a minigun and expects you to fight a deathclaw, which kills a lot of the sense of progression for me. Actually, the Fallout 4 deathclaw quest is probably the biggest nail in the coffin for me for that game. I actually like Fallout 4 quite a bit, and I don't know why it irks me so much, but every time I start up a new game I'm filled with dread for that damn Deathclaw fight. I suppose it has to do with me typically building stealth-based, glass-cannon style characters.

"Any campaign world where an orc samurai can leap off a landcruiser to fight a herd of Bulbasaurs will always have my vote of confidence"
Journeyman Overlording the Underworld from On a throne in a vault overlooking the Wasteland
Overlording the Underworld
Aug 12th 2019 at 4:41:15 PM

Easy enough to skip that quest and even skip the motivation for it. Your character's from the area and has a lot of experience with it. Look around in disbelief for a bit, leave Sanctuary without believing that's Codsworth, and charge somewhere else. My personal favorite place to go first, for a magazine, is the campground on the west side of the map, across the bridge. I grab the Wasteland Survival Guide that gives you +1 meat from animal kills, then go on my way wherever. You could do that, then go down the road and still wind up in Diamond City to pick up the trail. You can even start the Brotherhood line if you go up the road a way, though you'll probably want to grab a better gun first.

Protagonist506 from 'MURICA Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Aug 12th 2019 at 4:43:47 PM

To be fair, I do like Codsworth quite a bit, which is why I keep doing the quest.

"Any campaign world where an orc samurai can leap off a landcruiser to fight a herd of Bulbasaurs will always have my vote of confidence"
Journeyman Overlording the Underworld from On a throne in a vault overlooking the Wasteland
Overlording the Underworld
Aug 12th 2019 at 4:45:01 PM

Fair enough. I like upgrading him into a weapon wielding, load bearing monstrosity that can float at my side and do what needs done. It's such fun watching him shoot bad guys and chase them away.

ETA: Whenever I get motivated to do a Fallout series on my channel, I plan on doing that magazine thing then looping back to Concord from the South to hit the enemy from a different angle. And using that magazine to get an extra deathclaw steak in the process.

Edited by Journeyman on Aug 12th 2019 at 7:46:08 AM

Balmung Chain Breaker from Nebraska, Free American Empire Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Chain Breaker
Aug 12th 2019 at 7:31:45 PM

For what it's worth, nothing says you have to use the power armor in 4. You can just keep plinking away from the rooftop, completely ignoring the power armor and minigub, you can show up in your own power armor (which gets special dialog), or you can show up with 8+ STR and rip the minigun off without power armor. You still have to fetch the fusion core if you didn't bring your own power armor, but using it is entirely optional.

The worst thing about the progression there is that handing you a minigun so early means that the minigun basically has to suck and have no long-term potential.

Anyway, honestly, I never cared all that much about any of the initial plot threads. I don't need the father/son thing or the Benny thing, just let me stumble into the main conflict instead of trying to thrust a motive on me like that.

I want some flying cars, a ticket to the stars / Or even just a world without religious wars
deludedmusings Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Aug 12th 2019 at 7:34:39 PM

That was always my issue with the FO 4 start. It's meant to be urgent, but I just don't care. Most fun I had with 4 was with an alternate start mod.

With New Vegas, it feels more natural to just slowly make your way to Vegas, doing odd stuff along the way, getting to Benny when you get to him.

Edited by deludedmusings on Aug 13th 2019 at 12:38:28 AM

Holding a grudge is allowing someone to live inside your head rent free.
Balmung Chain Breaker from Nebraska, Free American Empire Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Chain Breaker
Aug 12th 2019 at 7:36:50 PM

I actually put off dealing with Benny as long as possible because I'd rather be doing other things than dealing with his stupid chip and House's jerk plan and such.

I want some flying cars, a ticket to the stars / Or even just a world without religious wars
Journeyman Overlording the Underworld from On a throne in a vault overlooking the Wasteland
Overlording the Underworld
Aug 12th 2019 at 7:53:26 PM

Yeah, and while you always have dialogue options asking where Benny went, there's nothing in them that feels as urgent as "My son was kidnapped and I need to find him!" Ultimately, once you know enough to ask Johnson Nash about the job you did, you pretty much know exactly where Benny's going, so you don't need to run around like you're still trying to catch him ahead of time.

Aug 12th 2019 at 8:58:39 PM

Part of the way they deal with the minigun is that most people don't have the STR/perks to use it effectively at that point, and they don't give much ammo for it.

Dirtyblue929 Armchair Developer from A Very Deep Hole Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
Armchair Developer
Aug 12th 2019 at 9:09:06 PM

AFAIK there's no STR requirements in FO4.

Edited by Dirtyblue929 on Aug 12th 2019 at 9:09:21 AM

"Oh no, I'm not brave enough for politics."
Aug 12th 2019 at 9:45:11 PM

Not to use it, but the good perks that improve its use are gated behind higher str.

Nikkolas from Texas Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Aug 16th 2019 at 2:21:45 AM

Is all the inconsistency with Lanius intentional?

I still can't get over how everything you hear about the guy, including from Caesar himself, paints him as a basically mindless brute. Then you actually meet him and he's rather articulate and clever. I haven't done this but isn't talking him down reasoning with him and showing he can think tactically? This doesn't jive with, say, Lanius Legion endings where he is far more reckless and crazy than Caesar.

Also apparently if you take his mask ...his face is fine so Caesar was lying?

Edited by Nikkolas on Aug 16th 2019 at 2:23:55 AM

M84 Such heroic nonsense from Our little blue planet Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Such heroic nonsense
Aug 16th 2019 at 2:28:26 AM

Caesar lying?

Perish the thought! /sarc

And Lanius being articulate just makes his Social Darwinist madness even creepier.

Edited by M84 on Aug 16th 2019 at 5:29:55 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Nikkolas from Texas Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Aug 16th 2019 at 2:45:41 AM

Caesar never lies to the Courier once as far as I'm aware.

And doesn't really matter what Lanius is. This is not about morals, it's about writing. The Legion being evil doesn't bother me one bit since they're well-written evil. But this might be a flaw in that writing.

Edited by Nikkolas on Aug 16th 2019 at 2:48:24 AM

M84 Such heroic nonsense from Our little blue planet Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Such heroic nonsense
Aug 16th 2019 at 2:56:54 AM

[up]The whole point is that the Legion has cultivated an image of Lanius as a total monster. Describing him as a monstrous scarred brute is part of that.

That the actual Lanius is a rather eloquent monster who doesn't actually look like one doesn't matter.

Ulysses points out that Lanius is the Legion's Propaganda Hero. Of course Caesar is going to build up Lanius as a beast akin to, say, Frank Horrigan. Heck, the reason you can even talk down Lanius is because he is aware that his power lies in his reputation.

Ulysses: His strength lies in his title - and it is his weakness. He will not fight a losing battle and destroy what he represents. Put the idea of loss in him. Convince him the Bear will not be the twentieth tribe beneath his heel, it will make him pause like nothing on earth.

If you actually believed the stories of Lanius being some unstoppable brutish monster...congratulations, you fell for Legion propaganda.

Edited by M84 on Aug 16th 2019 at 6:03:12 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Nikkolas from Texas Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Aug 16th 2019 at 3:14:15 AM

Well the first thing you hear about Lanius is from Mr. New Vegas.

I guess everyone could have been taken in by the propaganda though. Fair enough.

UltraWanker You are empty Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
You are empty
Aug 16th 2019 at 4:14:15 AM

Lanius is a warrior at his core, and has no clue how to lead a nation outside of "stab the enemies and whoever opposes your ideas." It is no surprise the Legion falls apart with him. He's ultimately more about the bark than actual bite.

And that's why you can talk him down. Unlike Frank, he doesn't really have much in terms of conviction.

Edited by UltraWanker on Aug 16th 2019 at 11:17:39 AM

Your Uber has arrived, goofy-ass.
EchoingSilence The Masked Commissar from Space Station Relationship Status: Robosexual
The Masked Commissar
Aug 16th 2019 at 7:42:40 AM

I'm going to be doing another run through Fallout Dust, I got a bunch of companion mods so I'm ready to fight through these desolate wastes with nothing but robots because I am so alone.

FOR THE IMPERIUM Icon done by: Miss Cheese Ham
Protagonist506 from 'MURICA Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Aug 16th 2019 at 12:14:17 PM

I don't recall enough of the Legion's statements about the Legate. I found him a pretty neat character, and I'm surprised they wouldn't shill him as intelligent and articulate.

Having said that, I do have one big complaint with him, and I suppose it applies to the rest of the Legion. Legate Lanius is a bit too much of a Badass Normal to be believable. He's a normal human with downright low-tech equipment (his main weapon is a bumper sword). I feel that's a bad choice for the final boss of this game. At least give him some power armor, mutations, or a chainsaw. Something to explain why this guy is so much of a threat.

This is a bit of a problem with the Legion in general. They're meant to be a credible threat, but Fridge Logic says they're a Harmless Villain kind of doomed to fail even if they win. There's plenty a video explaining why even if they take Hoover Dam they'll collapse, and the game seems to agree with them.

"Any campaign world where an orc samurai can leap off a landcruiser to fight a herd of Bulbasaurs will always have my vote of confidence"
Nikkolas from Texas Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Aug 16th 2019 at 2:30:30 PM

Those are two separate issues I think. New Vegas is full of Badass Normals like Graham, Lanius or Ulysses. The series just doesn't really care about realism as much as some people seem to think. It's always been pulpy as hell and things like power armor and guns don't equal supremacy like certain fans want to pretend.

As for the Legion collapsing, that has nothing to do with its military and everything to do with its social/political structure. It's an important flaw in their system just like how the NCR is corrupt and run by a buffoon is an important flaw in their structure.As Otacon would say, people and things just aren't complete without a character flaw.

Edited by Nikkolas on Aug 16th 2019 at 2:31:22 AM

FGHIK Mr. Speaker from right behind you Relationship Status: Halfway to Pon Farr
Mr. Speaker
Aug 16th 2019 at 3:28:20 PM

Yeah, the whole wearing football pads and melee weapons thing always seemed silly to me. It'd be one thing if the apocalypse meant guns were impractical, but they aren't... Almost everyone has one. New guns and ammo are even being manufactured by the Gun Runners. And we're not talking slapped together blunderbusses, but sniper rifles, miniguns, rocket launchers. Realistically, the Legion's melee soldiers would just get slaughtered before they can accomplish much of anything.

I missed the part where that's my problem.
Aug 16th 2019 at 3:49:16 PM

We've had this conversation before, and yeah, melee weapons are at a horrific disadvantage against ranged weapons. Not to mention that the NCR has functional vehicles (even if the game can't support them) and the Legion doesn't. The only reason the Legion ever stands a chance is because the NCR has massively overextended themselves.

And that's all tactics. As noted, the Legion's government is no better, and even if they somehow managed to conquer the entire continent they'd eventually burn out with nothing else to fight. That's the core of Caesar's plan, in fact, as he wants to turn New Vegas into the center of Legion culture and turn them into a real nation instead of a rampaging army. Whether that's realistic is arguable, but it's certainly a better plan than trying to continue as they are.

Nikkolas from Texas Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Aug 16th 2019 at 3:57:04 PM

The Legion has learned since the First Battle. They don't have open engagements with the NCR. They raid, they ambush, they use proxies. and of course the key to winning the Second Battle of Hoover Dam is sneaking in. The NCR isn't just overstretched due to their own incompetent imperialism, the Legion has been systematically weakening them.

Aug 16th 2019 at 4:04:37 PM

If the military wasn't being run by an incompetent Glory Hound than the smartest thing the NCR could've done was get some of those vertibirds of theirs and carpet bomb the shit out of the legion.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
Aug 16th 2019 at 4:05:37 PM

They've learned but they've still got the problem of being a bunch of raiders in football gear trying to win a war with a genuine and stable nationstate.

There's no way for the Legion to win any long term conflict with the NCR. Hell there's no way for anyone to stop the NCR's expansion in the long term.

That's like the whole meta reason for Ulysses and Lonesome Road.

Oh really when?

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