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Speaking of melee weapons though, the Legion's machete bothers me. It's a half-assed ground lawnmower blade. First, most of them should have rusted to uselessness before the Legion could get to them, but on top of that, by now, it's probably in no condition to be used as a combat blade and trying to strike someone with it would probably rapidly result in catastrophic blade failure. On top of that, its poor handle would quickly result in user injury. I know the Legion's not wild about technology, but if they're going to glorify melee combat so much, you'd think they could be bothered to at least have some people properly smiting blades that won't snap off on the first bone they strike. Based on the rarer machete gladius, they even know how to do this.
The idea that a bunch of raiders in dolled up football uniforms, armed mostly with brittle lawnmower blades, are a serious threat to anyone really hurts the verisimilitude of the entire conflict.
Eh. I think the idea that the Fallout universe should be moving toward realism as opposed to the satirical, deliberately corny, hand-wavey deconstructive retro-futuristic aspects eats into part of what made the setting unique in the first place, and limits what can be done within it.
The series has become both Lighter and Softer and whatever the opposite of Denser and Wackier might be over time. You can still make a good game out of that, don't get me wrong, but there's something to be said for the theme park villains and settings and kitchen-sink, winkingly impossible Mad Science the series was built on.
You can have a lot of fantastical elements while still keeping the mundane elements, well, mundane. I'd say that would enhance things, actually. A guy with body armor and an assault rifle should perform in gameplay, and act in-universe, like a guy with body armor and an assault rifle. Using melee weapons in a setting with guns is fine (albeit still suboptimal) for bullet-resistant monstrosities, like super mutants, but regular people? In a world where guns exist and are plentiful? People should still be people, they should still die if you shoot them five times in the face and should still consider charging at gun-wielding enemies with melee weapons to be suicidal.
Go crazy with the mutants, super soldiers, robots, cyborgs, energy weapons and so on, as long as their own rules are consistent, but a human should be a human.
Edited by Kamiccolo on Jan 30th 2019 at 5:41:09 AM
The Legion doesn't completely make use of melee weapons and does have some guns on hand, as well as howitzers and a willingness to be complete bastards as exampled by the dirty bomb and the numerous spies and agents they have.
The vast majority of Legion soldiers use guns (upwards of 80% from my playthroughs), but that still doesn't explain why the melee-using ones even exist. Men with bicycle helmets and pocket knives being a serious part of any army in the setting is just... stupid.
Edited by Kamiccolo on Jan 30th 2019 at 5:43:31 AM
I'll take the hit to realism if it means I get to punch people to death.
Like what you like. Personally I do enjoy the more ridiculous elements, the goofy robots, the wackier raiders, the science that makes no sense and the weapons that shouldn't be anywhere near as effective as they are. Rule of Cool / Rule of Funny.
But as far as why the Legion uses melee weapons — guns and especially ammo aren't actually all that plentiful, it seems like. I mean, they are everywhere at higher levels and on higher difficulties, but at that point you can explain it as the Legion quite literally gunning for you. As far as why there are so many guns in FNV in particular, well.. The NCR and Brotherhood can make more, Vegas's gunsmiths might have actually lived through the war to pass down those skills, they trade with Salt Lake City where Colts are explicitly still being produced... Meanwhile, the vaults had more than they could conceivably use for the most part, but those are concentrated on the coasts, so in the places in between, like Colorado where the Legion formed, where it's all tribals and most of whatever was left to scavenge has pretty much fallen to pieces, melee weapons and throwing tomahawks are more practical.
And I can believe that enough dudes with enough knives and spears can get the better of soldiers with limited ammo, fewer numbers, and worse discipline and tactics. Especially when the NCR is refusing to make use of its own intelligence and rangers — the Frumentarii pretty much have the run of the Mojave.
Edited by Unsung on Jan 31st 2019 at 2:09:20 AM
If I wanted more realism in a game like this I'd play Red Dead Redemption 2.
I think if one wants a game with giant mutant scorpions and chameleons to have more realism they are kind of missing the point.
Edited by M84 on Jan 30th 2019 at 10:20:43 PM
I really can't comprehend why people object to using melee weapons.
Newsflash: Fallout is a pulpy, painfully unrealistic setting. 3 out of 4 routes in NV are fighting a big dude with a sword.
Guns don't mean shit if you are anyone worth speaking of. Beat that guy in power armor to death with a flagpole.
Exactly. I want more goofy shit like a gigantic manbeast in a tin mask with a sword made from a car fender who expressly isn't a mutant, not less.
It's not "dumb", just personal taste, dude. The threshold for suspension of disbelief can be lower because it's not trying to take itself as seriously. That doesn't mean it's not there at all.
I mean the reasoning "fantastical elements exist in a universe, therefore there is no logic" is what's dumb.
The logic is that this is a video game with multiple weapon types and all of them must be viable for someone to play and complete the game with. And if guns held the kind of power you want them to be, the gameplay would become more boring than you might think. There's a plethora of cover shooters where standing in the open will get you turned into a smear on the floor, and Fallout is not that kind of game.
I have always found it weird that unarmored human enemies could take forty bullets to the head before going down but I think that's more due to the fact it uses a modified fallout 3 engine as I don't think fallout 1 and 2 did that.
That's a hold out of taking an RPG engine and system usually used in an abstract turn based isometric view and applying it LITERALLY to a 3d shooter.
For some reason the geek obsession with RPG systems applies to damage and levels and stat systems, rather than more nuanced measures - like being able to aim correctly, or reloading faster, or having weapons jam more easily if you aren't familiar with them or or or.
It's because damage / world impact is an easier metric to SHOW progression in. And if your enemies can tank 40 rounds it makes it less problematic that you can as well.
Someone just brought up another thing to me about my idea, I need to talk music selection for New Vegas.
Johnny Guitar and Big Iron.
Set the theme fantastically - at least in the "cowboy" segments. The bit where it becomes a gangster story... not so sure.
I do almost all my fighting in NV with a rifle.
I did a self imposed challenge - stick with the cowboy look / theme. So, revolvers and lever action and the odd shotgun only.
All other weapons get chucked / sold.
Makes the late game... interesting. Had a Bounty Hunter mod which gives some decent levelled Cowboy guns which has helped. Haven't attempted Blue Mountain, or Honest hearts with the getup yet; nor lonesome road. The game is so many hours in it's a fair bit unstable.
Caravan shotgun counts. Dynamite counts. You really shouldn't be missing out on much even with the old-school type weapons only.
Yeah used those - makes for good fun. Challenge is some high armour enemies and REALLY makes you think about ammo types more. Rather enjoyed it. I tend to default to 50 cal sniper guy most of the time, so good to try a different play style.
It's a shame the combat isn't a bit more like Far Cry. The way to deal with heavy armor was fire and chemical warfare. >:D
And copious amounts of Skrillex.
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