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Rename: Dancing Bear

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DragonQuestZ The Other Troper from Somewhere in California Since: Jan, 2001
The Other Troper
#26: Jan 4th 2011 at 12:48:35 AM

BTW, perhaps Come See The Dancing Bear might fit, as "Come see the X" was a common phrase for such an attraction.

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
CrypticMirror Cryptic Mirror from Scotland Since: Jan, 2001
#28: Jan 4th 2011 at 7:39:25 AM

Current name seems fine, all it requires is tropers able to process a very minor bit of new information.

DragonQuestZ The Other Troper from Somewhere in California Since: Jan, 2001
The Other Troper
#29: Jan 4th 2011 at 3:08:57 PM

[up] No, we should not require people to do more work to understand something (in this case not confusing a trope for something else it could mean), when the entire point of the site is explaining tropes. We explain to them, not require them to do research for the information we don't want to give.

edited 4th Jan '11 3:09:23 PM by DragonQuestZ

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#30: Jan 4th 2011 at 3:14:51 PM

I've heard the expression before, but I recognize it might be a little obscure. I'd like to just give it a suitable redirect considering it's not something we made up for the wiki. It's a real idiom/proverb/whatever.

Camacan from Australiatown Since: Jan, 2001
#31: Jan 4th 2011 at 7:51:34 PM

I dislike the title and the page quote because they seem negative and invite negative editorializing. This metaphorical bear is dancing badly and people are only watching because of the novelty. So if work X is cited it means it is crap, but was a success solely because of a gimmick. At least that's the impression I get.

To me it seem to be a way of Complaining About Shows You Dont Like, and is more narrow than it needs to be. I agree that "gimmick-driven audience interest is real" but I suspect it would be easier to cite good examples if it was defined as being orthogonal to a work's merits. So a chunk of the audience turns up to see Avatar for the 3D spectacle — but that doesn't necessarily make it good or bad.

edited 4th Jan '11 9:31:56 PM by Camacan

HappyMaskMan Rock Solid! Since: Aug, 2009
Rock Solid!
#32: Jan 4th 2011 at 8:09:38 PM

I always saw this as being kind of sympathetic toward the bear. I mean, say that bear wants to become an accomplished dancer.. but people just see it as a "bear that dances", not a "dancer" like they would see a person. He wants to be known for what he does, not for what he is! Must he eternally be seen as a novelty?

..Erm, I'm not sure if this is relevant at all.

NerdAtComputer Nac from Present day,present time Since: Sep, 2010
Nac
#33: Mar 2nd 2011 at 1:29:08 PM

Dancing Bear seems a little confusing for the trope name.

It implies "Here to see the dancing bear", but only after you've read the proverb.

Besides, it sounds pretty weird saying "Yes, because this is a case of Dancing Bear". It's very unintuitive.

And this is an odd question, but isn't this trope strongly related to Just Here for Godzilla??

Just call me Nac.
suedenim Teutonic Tomboy T-Girl from Jet Dream HQ Since: Oct, 2009
Teutonic Tomboy T-Girl
#34: Mar 2nd 2011 at 4:26:10 PM

Hmm... there's a fair amount of overlap, but Dancing Bear is about novelty first and foremost - "Here's something you've never seen before!" While Just Here for Godzilla might be about novelty, but often isn't - it's about watching a movie that you otherwise wouldn't, just because a favorite actor is in it, or because Godzilla will be there stepping on buildings.

The Just Here for Godzilla crowd doesn't necessarily expect (or even want, probably) Godzilla to do anything especially different from what he does in all his other movies.

Jet-a-Reeno!
NerdAtComputer Nac from Present day,present time Since: Sep, 2010
Nac
#35: Mar 2nd 2011 at 6:23:23 PM

[up] They are very similar, in my opinion both trope need a little rewritting. (and saying that they might overlap)

As far as I got it:

  • Just Here for Godzilla - people want to see something simple and entertaining. (AKA Godzilla) They don't care about all the rest.

  • Dancing Bear: people want to watch something simple and rare. (AKA Paris Hilton acting) They don't care about all the rest, or even the quality of the former.


Also, how about renaming this trope?

I was reading the example of another article that included this trope in its description (Heart Is an Awesome Power), and I was TOTALLY LOST!

"Aquaman. Wall Of Text here. I'll attempt to separate them into the three obvious conclusions of his abilities, then follow with the Dancing Bears"

The trope-title is impossible to understand unless you've read the trope.

Even when you don't know what a trope is about, a trope-name should make sense if you are reading it inside a context. Like reading a book, even if you find an unknown word, you should be able to guess a little bit of the meaning, since it is inside a context.

edited 2nd Mar '11 6:27:10 PM by NerdAtComputer

Just call me Nac.
Aminatep Vulpes Zerda from Glorious Mother Russia Since: Oct, 2009
Vulpes Zerda
#36: Mar 3rd 2011 at 1:37:07 AM

Just Here For The Gimmick?

Also I have never heard about the proverb in question. Just Saiyan.

edited 3rd Mar '11 1:37:37 AM by Aminatep

   I will consume not only your flesh, but your very soul.   
SilentReverence adopting kitteh from 3 tiles right 1 tile up Since: Jan, 2010
adopting kitteh
#37: Mar 4th 2011 at 6:06:04 AM

Azek: you seem to need (strongly) to get more in touch with your native culture.

I think that the name is good in that it offers a bit of free education without making a miss of what the trope itself is about, but not good enough (given its plainness, mostly) to make people think preferently of the trope. Part of the problem is that in its current form people might expect to see Exactly What It Says on the Tin when the visit the trope (a strong symptom of stupidization of our target audience, IMHO).

Come See The Dancing Bear might be a far better choice, and it doesn't lose the reference.

Fanfic Recs orwellianretcon'd: cutlocked for committee or for Google?
gfrequency Since: Apr, 2009
#38: Mar 14th 2011 at 2:59:12 PM

Until there's a trope about actual dancing bears, I'm all for this one retaining its title. Too many tropes of late have been renamed because people aren't willing to read the bloody page and find out why it's called this or that.

DragonQuestZ The Other Troper from Somewhere in California Since: Jan, 2001
The Other Troper
#39: Mar 14th 2011 at 4:35:06 PM

"of late"? That's always been the way with bad trope names. "Read the article" is not a defense of a name.

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.
MC42 Tempus Omnia Iudicat Since: Oct, 2010
Tempus Omnia Iudicat
#40: Mar 14th 2011 at 4:44:46 PM

If people have to read the article to find out any information on what it is, it's an ineffective title. When people see Dancing Bear, the first thing that comes to mind is a bear that is dancing. Watch For The Gimmick is much, much more clear.

"Thorough preparation must lead to success. Neglect nothing."
SilentReverence adopting kitteh from 3 tiles right 1 tile up Since: Jan, 2010
adopting kitteh
#41: Mar 14th 2011 at 8:51:07 PM

"Have to read"? "Any information"? That's quite a stretch, even from "tropes should be clear from the title and only the title". Hope you don't think anything about a trope that is not examples or the title is useless?

The current name is not good, granted, but it does go in the right direction. This is about dancing bears, but more importantly, that you should come see them! They are novel and marvelous! (No matter the rest of our show isn't!)

Fanfic Recs orwellianretcon'd: cutlocked for committee or for Google?
treelo Since: Jun, 2010
#42: Jun 28th 2011 at 8:46:15 AM

OK, lots of discussion about renaming the trope (as well as why a rename sucks) and a couple of examples so probably should have a little bit of crowner activity regarding this, see if we can't pick out a new title if it requires one at all.

treelo Since: Jun, 2010
#43: Jun 28th 2011 at 9:00:08 AM

I have created a new crowner for this (right here) but have no idea how to attach it to this so would someone care to attach it?

edited 28th Jun '11 9:00:22 AM by treelo

pokedude10 Since: Oct, 2010
#44: Jun 28th 2011 at 9:57:22 AM

[up] Just hit the yellow triangle on your post to holler for a mod. Only mods can pin crowners to threads.

I'll do it this time

Shale Since: Jan, 2001
#45: Jun 28th 2011 at 10:36:32 AM

I'm going to be That Guy who says that we need a single-proposition crowner before moving on to alternate names.

pokedude10 Since: Oct, 2010
#46: Jun 28th 2011 at 11:41:56 AM

[up] I forgot to mention that. Yes, we need a single prop crowner first.

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PageAction: DancingBear
28th Jun '11 8:53:12 AM

Crown Description:

Pick a new name (if any) for this trope

Total posts: 46
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