Hi
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Agreed...IMO the # of hats should be at least twice the # of bombs to have consensus to launch. Even so, if a trope idea has multiple bombs then it's probably a good indication that there's some serious flaw that needs to be addressed.
Tief girl with eartude
I started this TLP trivia piece
, about tricks in games that make things look weird from "behind the scenes" the last week, but discussion seems to have dried up pretty quickly.
I think that's bound to happen on a technically minded trope. Maybe an image would help to make it easier to think of examples.
So 5 hats are good enough for launching a trope? IMO, we should raise the bar a little. Say like 7 or 8. Opinion?
Cutting Corners went live as Cutting Corners in 2014. Can a mod flag the TLP thread as "Troped"?
Can this thread be renamed to TLP workstation thread?
Another question: There seem to be cases where a TLP thread shows a discard button while there is no bomb thrown (example here). I reported this and then Septimus Heap mentioned that it's "not a bug. Even TL Ps with no bombs are occasionally discard-worthy."
I don't understand what that means. Is there a mod function that can turn the Discard button on at any time or how is a thread determined "discard-worthy"?
Any TLP is potentially discard-worthy. That's why the button exist, to get rid of poor TLP.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Why does the Discard button not show for all threads beyond three days consistently? I don't understand the particularity here.
So, are 5 bombs a coded requirement to discard something? If so, perhaps note it on the YKTTW Guidelines?
Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576
Another thread not properly tagged a "troped": [1], see Beggar with a Signboard. Can this be fixed?
My "Vampire Clans" proto-trope regarding multiple types of vampire in the same work is almost ready for launch, pending one more minor rewrite and a few more added examples. However a concern has been brought up about the trope name. Some say Vampire Clans is too similar to Council of Vampires, since they both have a political connotation. However no-one can suggest something that I don't feel is easily confused with Our Vampires Are Different. Does anyone here have any suggestions?
edited 15th Feb '17 5:57:02 AM by Anura
A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they will never sit in.
I think the Plasma Manipulation TLP needs more people looking at it.
Signpost Tutorial has been sitting around for several years now and I think it's time it got some more hats.
Percussive Shutdown was launched without consensus. Should it be rolled back?
Blapper of Water
Brought that to the crash rescue thread.
Zzzzzzzzzz
@eroock: What do you mean "without consensus?" How does it lack consensus? I see five hats and no bombs, and no questions raised about its viability or objections in the comments. It was open for over six months (September 2016 to launch in March of 2017.)
edited 13th Mar '17 12:25:11 PM by Madrugada
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
Like reflections in the glass!
I have a general question and 3 drafts (all created as a responce to the Ares TRS thread)
My question is regarding if its okay to mine examples from existing tropes for these drafts or not?
Zzzzzzzzzz
Yes, it's ok to mine examples.
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
Like reflections in the glass!
Now I have another question, but first I want to know if this is the right place for this type of query, and if not if the "is this an example" thread able to take TLP-relevant questions.
For reference. My first proposal in recent days, "Hollywood Mythological Characters" has a comment claiming that the Final Fantasy examples don't count because they are not set in a universe connected to Earth. (such a claim also affects the Golden Sun examples and the one DnD example)
The trope I am proposing covers radical (no not Totally Radical, though I'm sure one of the Touhou examples overlaps with that) depictions of mythical characters. I want to know if you think there has to be an explicit connection to Earth or the RL mythology the character came from (or at least a Crossover Cosmology like Danmachi's case) for the examples to count?
edited 24th Mar '17 9:10:07 PM by MorningStar1337
Zzzzzzzzzz
I'm not the commenter who said that, but I do have a somewhat similar concern; that if there's no clear connection between the setting of the work and Earth history, there needs to be some solid indication —within the work— that the character is actually intended to be, be based on, or stand-in for, the mythological being. (For instance, not all gods of the Underworld that are male are variations on Hades, not all female ones are intended to be Hel. The job description "god of the underworld" is going to force some similarity, even if the author didn't have Hades or Hel in mind at all.)
And Yes, this is the right thread for that sort of question.
edited 25th Mar '17 6:32:19 AM by Madrugada
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
Blapper of Water
Concerning the "inspired by" and "actually supposed to be" comment and Madrugada's comment for Hollywood Mythological Characters, the powers/abilities and salient imagery of the character can be examined in order to find a difference. I think if a character is "heavily inspired by," then that should be enough to count as the trope.
I have two examples, both from Final Fantasy, that can illustrate what I mean.
Take Shiva from Final Fantasy. The blue skin and name leads many players to conclude that she's just a Gender Flip of Shiva the Hindu god, and her ice powers are there "just because" or "because they needed an ice summon." However, her powers — and the context of this being a Japanese company anyway — along with her consistent beauty in the franchise are more closely tied to the Yukionna, which are "beautiful women in snowy, cold, or mountainous regions," and her name can be interpreted as a pun on "Shiver."
- "Inspired by" Shiva of Hindu mythology.
- "actually supposed to be" a Yuki-onna from Japanese mythology
- Is this trope because of the connection to the Yuki-onna and the decently strong connection to Shiva the Hindu god.
Take Odin from Final Fantasy 13. Odin the Norse god does not have lightning powers, but he is a god of berserkers, who rides a notable horse (he has eight legs). The first thing that Odin the character does is try to kill an innocent (because that innocent was annoying the person who can summon him), and he transforms into a horse. One of the character's abilities is called "Ullr's Shield" — Ullr being another Norse god. However, Odin has no connection to lightning or thunder, and he does not iconically wield a sword and shielf. Nor does his horse only have four legs.
- (heavily) "inspired by" Odin of Norse mythology
- Is this trope because of the connection to Odin of Norse mythology and the use of lightning abilities (more suited to Thor or Farbauti) and the use of non-iconic imagery for this deity.
edited 25th Mar '17 10:10:42 AM by WaterBlap
Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty
Like reflections in the glass!
Okay in the wake of the qualification change suggested above I'd want to know if its okay to bring some examples here to be contested..
Zzzzzzzzzz
Sure. This thread is for working on a TLP proposal in more detail; examples, description, name are all acceptable here.
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
Like reflections in the glass!
Okt the exmaples I wish to contest are listed in the folder below. With the examples I don't want to contest having strike markup (there will be more space between example families to make the folder easier to read).
- Dungeons And Dragons did this with one unusual case: Bahamut. What was a fish from Arabic Mythology that carried the world became a powerful dragon, being the Trope Maker for Bahamut's draconic depiction.
- Final Fantasy often does this with various mythological characters.
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Gilgamesh is the prime offender. He is depicted as a Multi-Armed and Dangerous Oni instead of the Sumerian king and eponymous character of The Epic of Gilgamesh. He's also obsessed with the Arthurian sword Excalibur. His companion Enkidu also appears in several forms: a green demon, a green dog and a green chicken. - Bahamut is depicted as a dragon instead of a fish, much like in Dungeons & Dragons. This is the Trope Codifier for Bahamut's appearance as such ever since.
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Odin is depicted as a Black Knight whose Weapon Of Choice is not the trident Gungnir, but the sword Zantetsuken. His horse Sleipnir often does not have the 8 legs associated with him (and in Final Fantasy XII is A Kind of One).(This might be more due to his XIII and XIV appearances) - Shiva. In Hindu Myth, Shiva the Transformer is a male god who defends and changes the universe. Here Shiva is a female entity with power over Ice. The name might be a pun on the word "Shiver".
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Final Fantasy XII included a set of bosses based on The Four Gods. One of those bosses is Fenrir, who is a bipedal white tiger representing Baihu. Fenrir in the original mythology was a wolf and a quadruped, not a tiger.(ironiclay this is not due to the accuracy to the fenrir myth, but becuase of the The Four Gods theme) - Final Fantasy XIII uses summons different from the traditional mold. Most of which are more akin to Transformers. Among them are Brunhyldr (who can transform into a sports car), Shiva (who is now two sisters who can merge into a motorcycle) and Odin (who can transform into a horse).
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Final Fantasy XIV has a few cases.(Having played the game. I noticed than regarding the boss fights the developers seem to include details that reference the myths for the bosses that aren't summons or notable bosses in past games, whether it be in attack names, or in relationships to other characters derived form the same source myths. And even in the case where a boss came form the past game like Sephirot and Odin, they still have references to the myths and concepts that spawn them. There are 3rd level bullets for this example, but I removed them from this post for clarity's and redundancy's sake)
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- Golden Sun has plenty of them with its Summon Magic, though some might be due to using Western names/concepts in the translation:
- Coatlicue is a beautiful woman bearing healing water, rather than a horrifying Aztec goddess.
- Daedalus is a missile-spewing Humongous Mecha, instead of a mortal man who doomed his son to a botched escape plan.
- Procne is a Giant Flyer, though the sequel shows two birds flying alongside it which is more in line with the original myth.
- Cybele is a giant frog/plant hybrid rather than a goddess. Subverted in Dark Dawn when it is revealed that said frog is actually Cybele's assistant.
- Ulysses is called "a legendary wandering mage", using flying snapping mouths to attack. The original myths did not include those mouths or give him any magic (his crew on the other hand).
- Megaera is a Magical Girl-looking warrior rather than one of the Furies.
- Ramses is a robotic Ancient Egyptian-themed guardian statue.
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In Dark Dawn, Boreas has gone from an armored giant ice grinder to a train whose front half is a horse. Boreas in the myths was the God of the North Wind (Though the Amenoi in general were depicted as both horses and humanoids).(Reasoning involves the change to the equine depiction implying that the summon was inspired by their namesake) - Moloch (bull-headed Mesopotamian fire god) looks like a giant yeti that breathes ice.
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Neptune and Poseidon are two different entities: the first is a mutant sperm whale that fires spouts of water, while the second looks like a classic merman.(this is due to the fact that both are aquatic.)
- Castlevania
- The series falls into this a few times, although the strangest example by far is Zephyr, a time-controlling boss whose namesake was a Greek wind god who is depicted as either a man or a horse (the boss itself is a Shout-Out to Dio Brando of JoJo's Bizarre Adventure.)
- Persephone is a demon maid if her description is anything to go by. In practice, she's a Ninja Maid. In the myths she's supposed to be Hades' wife and bound to the Underworld.
- Devil May Cry 3 does this with Agni and Rudra, who are depicted as twin ogre-like demons instead of the humanoid Hindu gods they're based on. Other cases include Beowulf, who looks more like Pazuzu than the actual Beowulf, and Geryon, who is depicted as a demonic horse instead of a man with multiple conjoined bodies (details vary) from Greek myth.
I'm contesting to see if its clear those characters are inspired by the myths their names came from.
edited 26th Mar '17 2:05:48 PM by MorningStar1337
