TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Rework or Cleanup:: Evilly Affable

Go To

Deadlock Clock: Sep 9th 2011 at 11:59:00 PM
AymNaija Since: Jul, 2010
#26: Sep 13th 2010 at 7:23:53 PM

neo YT Pism hit it on the head for Evilly Affable. A Complete Monster with a hilarious or amusing personality which makes Envy a real good example as shown. The evil defines them and the amiability is a side dish to thei main personality. Affably Evil are not a Complete Monster and would be normal jovial, amusing or affable if it wasn't for the evil stuff they did. Laughably Evil are evil people who while evil and dangerous are hilarious in the way they are evil or mannerisms

the page definitions should more clearly reflect that so potholes and examples aren't added that are improperly placed

edited 15th Sep '10 10:10:36 AM by AymNaija

Camacan from Australiatown Since: Jan, 2001
#27: Sep 13th 2010 at 9:24:37 PM

For me it is only the audience that finds the Evilly Affable villain entertaining — other characters are too angry and scared of monsters like this and the villain is clearly using this paper-thin veneer of affability as a way of taunting his victims.

''The complete opposite of this trope is the Complete Monster, who is irredeemably evil in ways that aren't entertaining. Your Mileage May Vary on which side a particular villain may belong, though some are more clear-cut than others."

This makes no sense to me: Evilly Affable characters are often Complete Monsters. — think of The Joker which is presented as a prime example of Evilly Affable. Also: the laconic version of Evilly Affable: Unapologetically evil, but strangely amusing to watch.

All in all, I find the trio of Affably Evil, Evilly Affable and Laughably Evil to be a bit confusing.

edited 13th Sep '10 9:32:38 PM by Camacan

neoYTPism Since: May, 2010
#28: Sep 13th 2010 at 9:49:10 PM

"All in all, I find the trio of Affably Evil, Evilly Affable and Laughably Evil to be a bit confusing." - Camacan

The way I interpret it, Affably Evil is primarily affable but happens to be evil, Evilly Affable is primarily evil but happens to be affable, and Laughably Evil is a much broader trope, covering things like Evilly Affable and the more humorous varieties of milder villains like the Ineffectual Sympathetic Villain, and presumably the humorous varieties of whichever levels of villainy happen to be between the two extremes.

edited 13th Sep '10 9:49:19 PM by neoYTPism

Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#29: Sep 14th 2010 at 4:21:24 AM

Hrm - maybe Laughably Evil has supertrope potential? Evilly Affable, Terrible Trio, and so forth could qualify as subtropes.

What's precedent ever done for us?
albh05 Since: Dec, 1969
#31: Sep 16th 2010 at 7:38:20 PM

The way I interpret it is this: while both tropes are related to comedic sociopathy, laughably evil gives emphasis to the comedic part, while evily affable gives emphasis to the sociopathic part; while laughably evil is made with rule of funny in mind, the laughs may come a side effect to the evil deed in the evily affable trope. Or as the laconic entry puts it: "Unapologetically evil, but STRANGELY amusing to watch."

Caswin Since: Jan, 2001
#32: Sep 18th 2010 at 1:18:43 PM

Here's how I had them understood, for what it's worth:

  • Affably Evil: They're evil and villainous, but that doesn't mean they have to be rude or discourteous. If they weren't evil, they would be quite nice, polite, even cultured. Too bad they're so, well, bad. (For the record, I would count Raul Julia's M. Bison under this category. He was courteous and honorable to his enemies, to say nothing of his charisma, but, well, he was also an insane maniac with an empire partially built on drugs.)
  • Laughably Evil: Easy. There are two requisites for this. One: They're evil. No limit on that. Two: They're funny. The Joker is the king of this one, obviously — in fact, he has both the "harmless" and "horrific" extremes down pat, at least when he's written right.
  • Evilly Affable: This is the one I've always had trouble with, which is probably why this topic exists. I interpreted it (largely due to the page image) as playing at being affable, even while still clearly being evil. Where the "Affably Evil" villain's politeness is probably genuine, this is only an act, or a sick (or bitter, or immature) joke. The two best examples in my mind are the Joker of The Joker Blogs, and Dr. Blackgaard from Adventures In Odyssey — in the latter case, he can fake it as long as he needs to, but that's all it is.

That said, I always thought it was just confusing to draw a pointed contrast between Affably Evil and Evilly Affable, all the more so for newcomers. Some kind of a rework may be in order, at least.

neoYTPism Since: May, 2010
#33: Sep 18th 2010 at 6:18:59 PM

I think Affably Evil is more so about, like you said, politeness or charisma, whereas Evilly Affable is extreme villainy that happens to be amusing. I am not exactly convinced they are even in the same direction.

Tokuiten Since: Jan, 2001
#34: Sep 18th 2010 at 6:43:23 PM

I think Evilly Affable and Laughably Evil should be merged. In practice, there's virtually no difference.

Also, the whole "polar opposite of Complete Monster" thing should be dropped. For the most part, an Evilly Affable character is a Complete Monster with a sense of humor or otherwise Played for Laughs out-of-universe (i.e., he's intended to be funny to the audience but horrifying to the characters).

neoYTPism Since: May, 2010
#35: Sep 18th 2010 at 8:20:29 PM

"I think Evilly Affable and Laughably Evil should be merged. In practice, there's virtually no difference." - Toku

What are you talking about? Laughably Evil can span anything from Evilly Affable to Ineffectual Sympathetic Villain, and presumably almost every level of villain threat in between. If anything, Evilly Affable is probably a subset of Laughably Evil, but the latter is a broader trope.

edited 18th Sep '10 8:20:45 PM by neoYTPism

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#36: Sep 18th 2010 at 8:28:15 PM

The Same But More. Is there enough of a distinction in presentation to justify not merging them?

neoYTPism Since: May, 2010
#37: Sep 18th 2010 at 9:08:39 PM

Evilly Affable is NOT just the same but more. Evilly Affable is funny and extremely evil. Laughably Evil is funny but with varying magnitudes of evil. If anything, the former is a subset of the latter, but I would not think they are tropes in the same direction.

edited 18th Sep '10 9:08:54 PM by neoYTPism

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#38: Sep 18th 2010 at 10:34:43 PM

??

edited 18th Sep '10 10:34:55 PM by Arha

neoYTPism Since: May, 2010
#39: Sep 18th 2010 at 10:49:19 PM

Right, Evilly Affable is a lot more specific. Note that Evilly Affable is not implied to be a scalar multiple of Laughably Evil; the factor by which funny is increased is not implied to be proportional to the factor by which evil is increased to go from Laughably Evil to Evilly Affable.

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#40: Sep 18th 2010 at 10:57:38 PM

The point was more that both are 'funny evil' characters.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#41: Sep 19th 2010 at 12:41:15 AM

A lot of subtrope - supertrope dynamics work that way. In fact, all of them do.

MasterGhandalf Since: Jul, 2009
#42: Sep 19th 2010 at 8:35:07 AM

The way I always saw the distinction was that Laughably Evil is a fairly generic trope that can be applied to almost any humorous villain, while Evilly Affable refers to a very specific kind of villain who has no redeeming qualities beyond being amusing to the audience (Joker, Green Goblin, Xykon, some Megatrons, etc). I'd support keeping Evilly Affable as is, and making Laughably Evil a supertrope for funny villains.

EDIT: As for the Evilly Affable / Affably Evil divide, I think there can be some overlap, but it has to be clear that the villain is only being "nice" as a means of playing with their enemy (again, Xykon and Joker sometimes demonstrate this quality) as opposed to someone who is genuinely kind/polite, but happens to also be evil.

And the line about being the opposite of Complete Monster should go. Not all Complete Monsters are Evilly Affable, but many Evilly Affable characters are evil enough to qualify for Complete Monster.

edited 19th Sep '10 8:37:36 AM by MasterGhandalf

albh05 Since: Dec, 1969
#43: Sep 19th 2010 at 9:29:38 AM

Affably evil, where where humor meets heartlessness.

neoYTPism Since: May, 2010
#44: Sep 19th 2010 at 9:39:18 AM

I think you are thinking more of Evilly Affable, albh.

edited 19th Sep '10 9:39:45 AM by neoYTPism

Arha Since: Jan, 2010
#45: Sep 19th 2010 at 9:40:40 AM

I should probably point out I'm not really convinced we need a merge. I just wanted a clearer argument as to why we should not do so.

neoYTPism Since: May, 2010
#46: Sep 19th 2010 at 9:55:18 AM

Just think of Evilly Affable as the subtrope and Laughably Evil as the corresponding supertrope @ Arha

arks Boiled and Mashed Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
Boiled and Mashed
#47: Oct 3rd 2010 at 8:42:40 PM

bump

Video Game Census. Please contribute.
arks Boiled and Mashed Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
Boiled and Mashed
#48: Oct 9th 2010 at 3:24:26 PM

The more I look at it, the more I think that merging or cutlisting Evilly Affable is the right way to go, as currently listed. The problem with The Same But More tropes, which this is starting to turn into, is that there is no good way to have a cut-off point between the two. Thus the tropes are virtually identical.

Video Game Census. Please contribute.
Jordan Azor Ahai from Westeros Since: Jan, 2001
Azor Ahai
#49: Oct 9th 2010 at 5:35:38 PM

I think I had some role in creating the trope. I admit to some confusion myself. I mean I guess the general idea is "funny but irredeemable", but I do recognize that there are some Affably Evil complete monsters (Noah Cross of Chinatown for instance), and I'm not sure if I knew that Laughably Evil existed at the time (although that implies more of a Harmless Villain, doesn't it?).

Hodor
Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#50: Oct 9th 2010 at 5:44:31 PM

I guess the difference is that Laughably Evil villains are... well, laughed at for whatever reason. Evilly Affable ones, meanwhile, are laughed at because they have a good sense of humour which works well with their evilness. Supertrope and subtrope, basically.

Also, that definition of Evilly Affable would make it work quite well as a Counter Trope to Evil Has a Bad Sense of Humour.

As for Affably Evil, being polite and friendly has no bearing on your moral compass whatsoever. In fact, it's a highly effective way to make yourself a truly disturbing Complete Monster.

edited 9th Oct '10 5:46:27 PM by Iaculus

What's precedent ever done for us?

AlternativeTitles: EvillyAffable
22nd Aug '11 8:50:58 AM

Crown Description:

Vote up names you like, vote down names you don't. Whether or not the title will actually be changed is determined with a different kind of crowner (the Single Proposition crowner). This one just collects and ranks alternative titles.

Total posts: 330
Top