Yeah, I glanced at some recent news and it appears the player character will be limited to the clans Banu Haqim, Brujah, Tremere, Ventrue.
Yeah, I'm sorry. The sign has won.
I kinda just... don't know what this is.
If it's a linear story with RPG elements... what's the story exactly? I'm seeing a lot of "This is a mythical Vampire story" and my reaction is going "...Yes, it's a Vampire: Masquerade video game. What's the story though?"
Is it semi-open world with leveling like the first one?
What makes *this* game "BLOODLINES 2" compared to some of the other smaller budget Vampire games that have happened?
Or is this a case of "We announced it as Bloodlines 2 and people will be mad if it's not Bloodlines 2 even if it's not really related to Bloodlines as a series at this point"?
Or is this a case of "We announced it as Bloodlines 2 and people will be mad if it's not Bloodlines 2 even if it's not really related to Bloodlines as a series at this point"?
Quite literally yes, they were handed the game and are clearly trying to do their own thing with it.
Which besides showing a shocking lack of interest in the Bloodlines name also reveals how nonexistent the Hardsuit Labs version must have been. How badly did they fuck up that a pivot like this was possible?
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji YangChris Avellone said something akin to the fact that they ripped out all of his and Brian Mitsoda's story despite much of it being done.
Hardsuit Labs' CEO apparently disliking both of them.
Then only after that was done did she find out that it was like 2/3rds of the game.
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.I'm going to make a WMG that the story is:
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Aug 19th 2025 at 6:33:14 AM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.![]()
I don't find that particularly believable. Companies do not self-aflame two thirds of their game just because they don't like the writer, even if the writer in question suffered bad PR at the time.
It's not as if we can know for sure but I would bet any amount of money that development was a clusterfuck long before Avelone was fired.
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yanghttps://chrisavellone.medium.com/what-the-fuck-happened-to-bloodlines-2-1ad557bf2284
Here's the matter from Word of Saint Paul.
I think the issue was also that the video game sections they wrote wasn't done but it absolutely left them with no script.
Still, I do believe that they severely underestimated how difficult it is to write a video game plot.
To explain my contract: I worked on Bloodlines 2 for almost 2 and a half years, from 2016 to mid-2018, then my contract came to an end. They didn’t use anything I wrote during that time, which was a number of major characters and side missions, check my Linked In. This made me sad, but it’s not my choice. The whole experience was like the last five minutes of Barton Fink (not the beach scene, the scene before it, know-it-all), but stretched out over 2 and a half years. Even if I had known all that work was useless, I’d have written anyway, even though its part of your life you don’t get back, so you can’t really dwell on it too much. I’ve been on projects where a LOT more got thrown away… as Bloodlines 2 proved for almost everyone on it in the end, apparently.
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Aug 19th 2025 at 6:58:35 AM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
x6
I mean, yes, I'm aware and have been following since the Hard Suit Labs version. My recollection is that they didn't have "nothing", but that a lot was thrown out. It wasn't a literal inquiry- I was doing the rhetorical question thing.
No matter how wildly divergent this game could become, they would never ever drop the Bloodlines title because it's a marketing linchpin keeping the game afloat at this point.
I also don't think Hard Suit would just delete Avellone and other writer's work for "no reason". At least not in such a... simplistic manner?
1, as I recall, there were sexual assault allegations against Avellone. While they eventually were settled (something that doesn't actually clear him of any wrong doing), I don't think Hard Suit would be wrong if they saw that writing on the wall (again, irrelevant of Avellone's actual actions) and over-pivoted trying to nix his contributions from the game and the whole jenga tower crumbled in the process.
The entire thing has left a bad taste in basically everyone's mouths that this was clearly not the desired outcome for ANYONE. Hard Suit looks particularly bad publicly and professionally in the process as such a disaster for everyone to see isn't good business.
I'm just confused as to why, when shifting out of Hard Suits, it became something that (at least from Marketing) doesn't quite feel like it wants to be a follow-up to the original Bloodlines.
Also, for the conversation on clans, "Lascombra" and "Toreador" clans are included in some day-one DLC. I presume Clans will exist in a purely gameplay context rather than an RPG one then.
Fair enough.
Frankly given that Chinese Room was handed the project I think it's likely they never cared about the Bloodlines label and just wanted to do their own thing with the VTM setting. Which itself wouldn't be a bad thing if weren't making a Bloodlines sequel, but they aren't and that leads to the problem you've described in your posts. It just doesn't feel like it has any real connection to Bloodlines.
"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji YangIt should be noted his accusers said this:
“Mr. Avellone never sexually abused either of us. We have no knowledge that he has ever sexually abused any women. We have no knowledge that Mr. Avellone has ever misused corporate funds. Anything we have previously said or written about Mr. Avellone to the contrary was not our intent. We wanted to support women in the industry. In so doing, our words have been misinterpreted to suggest specific allegations of misconduct that were neither expressed nor intended. We are passionate about the safety, security and agency of women, minorities, LGBTQIA+ persons, and every other community that has seen persecution in the video game industry. We believe Mr. Avellone shares a desire to protect and uplift those communities. We believe that he deserves a full return to the industry and support him in those endeavors.”
Which is to say they claim that they were misconstrued and telephone gamed about saying he was an asshole as something else. Whether it's sincere or the lawsuit is the kind of speculation we'll never know but could just be what it is.
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Aug 19th 2025 at 10:27:45 AM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.A thing that happens? Totally. For better or worse even.
A thing that happens this publicly with only a handful of months of development left? Not that often.
Like, let's not forget that the writing was on the wall that the game would be released that year and there were already marketing materials, demos, and trailers out. You're usually pretty "locked in, like it or not" by that point.
Even when Cyberpunk 2077 kept getting delayed, it was still the same game as those 2019 trailers depicted. They were still working on the same game. The big development shifts in 2077 happened way earlier in the cycle around 2017-2018.
Though I'll point out we don't actually know if the game was good in the first place. We're attributing quality because "Chris Avellone writes good RP Gs", but even Avellone himself noted in that self-written article that he's written for lots and lots of games where his work never ever made it to publish.
Maybe what Chris wrote was good, but the game was shit. Or maybe what he wrote was also bad and did need to be thrown out. He speaks highly of his relationship and desire to write for Vampire, but as anyone who's read fan-fiction can tell you, that doesn't equate to quality.
I'm aware they said that. All of which is clearly statements made as part of the settlement. Again, not saying that he is or is not- just that this is how court cases, allegations, and settlements play out regardless of the actual actions in question. Me Too! taught us a lot about how these things play out- again, regardless of who is actually guilty of what.
My comment to Hard Suit throwing out his stuff in response to it doesn't actually require him to be guilty or not- just the studio's perception that keeping him could taint a project. It also doesn't mean Avellone's comments about contract being up are incorrect either; that might have been the studio's exit ramp for him because, as Avellone himself admits, they'll never really tell you the actual reason.
Edited by InkDagger on Aug 19th 2025 at 10:33:07 AM
The trailer certainly looks intriguing!
It's hard to say quite what the moment-to-moment gameplay will look like, based on said trailer—it looks to lean more into being a story-trailer than a gameplay-trailer.
But what there is does look like it could be cool, with some neat use of vampiric powers.
We'll see what's reported when it actually comes out, however!
~
As to whether it's really a "Bloodlines 2", and not just a new World of Darkness game with the Bloodlines name slapped on...
Well, that depends heavily on what you consider to be the essence of Bloodlines. Was it the open world? The clan reactivity? The RPG systems? The plotline? The overall vibes? (Something else?)
As such, whether this is a "true Bloodlines 2" will likely vary from person to person.
For myself, I'm going to hold back on deciding one way or another until I've seen more—likely after release.
~
I'm not sure that I follow the logic here. Could the DLC clans not be be, well, essentially DLC classes, and thus part of the RPG context?
Or if you mean "an RPG [context]" in the sense of roleplaying, then I could see the DLC coming with expanded dialogue/quest scripts to that end. ("Script" here more in the sense of "interpreted code" rather than "written narrative"—although that too.)
Edited by ArsThaumaturgis on Aug 20th 2025 at 10:09:52 AM
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Fair point.
I think that the issues are overstated personally. Phyre is going to be someone who can be shaped by us and our decisions so it'll be more flexible than the Witcher and probably close to Mass Effect. Given Phyre isn't even their real name, it'll be probably more so.
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.The Lasombra and Toreador clans actually will be available for the player character to be - if you buy the DLC for them.
Cohn Carnage posted on twitter about trying the game out.
First impressions: Incredibly immersive. Amazing music. Gorgeous environments. Combat is visceral, violent and powerful. The camera snaps around a bit but the soft locking makes it workable. The demo didn't have FOV but assuming it would be better with it upped a bit.
Loved the VIBE. Incredibly Noir. Some exceptionally creative use of in-game lore + mechanics. Really enjoyed my time. Only sponsored for 2 hours but got permission to continue and played an extra hour to finish.
This should not have been called Bloodlines 2. It's too different. This is more like Dishonored, The Darkness, etc. It's a first-person immersive action sim. It's not an RPG. Many of the mechanics of the base game are missing or just not there. The name is going to cause confusion and cause expectations the game will never meet. "Vampire: The Masquerade - The Nomad" would have fit much better. - Remove the classes from the premium version and add them to the base version ASAP. Yes, you will lose money on the upgrade but the amount of people who are going to swear off the game due to the monetization of core classes may quickly outweigh that. STRONGLY suggest not including mechanics that are that important (entire clans the player can be) behind DLC and better versions when the game is released. It would be incredibly unfortunate to the Chinese Room if their project was mismanaged with a bad PR stunt (looking at you, Deus Ex: Mankind Divided).
The TL:DR this is fun, but not at all "Bloodlines 2" and calling it that sets wrong expectations. It's not an RPG. And the monetization is garbage and may sink the game.
Edited by Ghilz on Aug 20th 2025 at 4:46:16 AM
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Groan I was afraid of this. SERIOUSLY, what the fuck is it with those adaptations of RPG games refusing to just be RP Gs?!
By contrast, another guy (Ken Levine) says its easier to write if your lead has a set personality and background rather than being a completely empty space.
Edited by CharlesPhipps on Aug 20th 2025 at 7:46:14 AM
Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.Ultimately just the transition from TTRPG to video game RPG already strip's a great deal from the game, as now you're going from characters being able to try any idea they imagine and pitch it to their ST to characters being limited to whatever ideas the developers accounted for. The developers are likewise limited to whatever the have the time and budget for.

They haven't said they're changing that, so I assume yes.
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