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"What would (surprisingly) work better as a World Of Darkness video game would be more like an action-adventure game than a straight RPG with level-grinding (ie. "you get experience and new powers only when you REALLY advance the plot instead of punching bums in back alleys")"
Which is what they tried to do, well the exp stuff anyway.
"piss-poor when it comes to how it looks." Ok most of the game isn't that good looking but you have to agree that the faces of most main characters are above-par.
badly coded (the fucking loading times, GAH!)
It's a troika game, so I can't really disagree with you here.
"Lacroix could easily kill the player character in the intro sequence and order all the bullshit things that happen next to any vampire he liked least if he wanted to kill them or any vampire best suited for the job if he wanted to get it done."
AFAIK he has no real power at the start and stops because he is challenged by nines, and see the work it as low risk/high reward, as long as you live you can do stuff and you have no real value except as fall guy and your ability to recognized the sight of nines. Thus using you is pretty much a win/win situation, or it looks like that from the beginning anyway.
edited 25th Jul '10 9:26:58 AM by mahel042
And that's where the problem lies: a Prince with no power? This guy could have had at least five pretenders planning to off him more or less actively even before everything started (believe me, vampires DELIGHT in Xanatos Gambits and Chronic Backstabbing Disorder is an occupational disease for some of them). So instead of idiotically convoluted plot involving an ANCIENT Anarch taken wholesale from one of the splatbooks (and that is Jack), a Schmuck Bait sarcophagus and more explosives than necessary (and those are only the vital parts of it), it could be made much simpler. And without even mentioning Ping Pong Schwang Schwing AKA Blob The Killer and her funky bunch of slanty suckers.
edited 25th Jul '10 9:40:50 AM by NotSoBadassLongcoat
The way it was set-up was that Lacroix was basically expected to fall soon (either by a Camarilla coup, Nines ripping his head off, or something else) but everyone was waiting to see where the chips would fall.
And Lacroix knew this (he'd been basically sent into the bear-trap) and was essentially desperately trying to get some kind of edge before someone decided to oust him.
Basically, everyone else was thinking not just "Can I take Lacroix out?" but "What happens next?" and they hadn't quite figured out that part yet. So they were biding their time.
Then Jack comes in and decides to play games for shits and giggles. And there you go.
I can understand the complaints about powers not working like in Pn P. It's legitimate. Granted, adapting those powers was mighty difficult, but it's clear that the team working on the game made some design decision that diverged a lot from its P'n'P counterpart and that could be avoided.
I can understand the complaints about bad coding. Troika always had this little problem with being incredibly ambitious when they had just a handful of guys on their teams, just look at their other (only two, unfortunately) games. So Yeah it is a badly coded game that required tons of unofficial patches to be smooth to play.
I can understand the complaints about railroading. Bloodlines IS a linear game with just a handful of choices, and not particularly impactful ones.
But the writing is good dammit. One of the best I've ever seen in videogames actually, with legitimately enjoyable characters, full of depth and with great voice acting that makes the characters really come to life (but remember, ultimately, dumb dialogue with great voice acting is just dumb dialogue).
It also has tons and tons of atmosphere, with an incredibly good soundtrack (the licensed tracks all fit incredibly well IMHO), great facial animations for its time, and little touches here and there. It also averts Real Is Brown, it's actually a lot more colorful that a lot of games published recently, and it is entirely set at night.
That's ultimately what makes the game enjoyable for me, no matter how dreadful some sequences are or how much it diverges from World Of Darkness canon (it probably helps that I never particularly liked it in the first place though).
I don't give a fuck if the game is unfaithful to the tabletop version, it's still one of the best RP Gs ever made, if horribly incomplete. I can count the number of games with better atmosphere on one hand, and the writing and voice acting are excellent. Combat? Kind of crappy, but it's an RPG so I can forgive.
I had never heard of Vt M before this game, and if they ignored some elements of its background to improve the game, then more power to them. What works in a video game and what works in a tabletop game are completely different.
^&^^ Agreed heartily. Some of the tabletop stuff is even more out there than the Blob monster.
The thing is, they didn't ignore some elements of the background. The game's background was meticulously based on V:tM lore and splatbooks. Hell, the entire setting of Los Angeles is cribbed straight from the splatbook about Los Angeles, with the exception of the Anarch Free State having recently become an incipient Camarilla domain. Everything in the game, save perhaps for the Tzimisce creations, has been taken from some splatbook or Wo D source. The game is practically one big damn love letter to the old World of Darkness.
The things they changed were changed for gameplay reasons. Some of the feats were moved around so that every stat and most skills would be used in two different feats. Most disciplines were changed to make them useful in combat. I'm pretty sure experience point costs were changed, too. And yes, the game is buggy, and was rushed out the door by an ailing studio, but with the unofficial patch installed, it's a very good, very balanced game.
Look! Yet another patch!
So I've played through several different clans at this point. I've gotta say if you haven't tried out the Nosferatu level you're missing out on a unique experience.
The problem I have with the game is the last fourth or so where the entire thing becomes a combat grind, particularly the maze that is Ming Xiao's lair, not to mention the battle with her itself.
I enjoy the game. Though every time I've played as a Malkavian chick who carries enough firepower to start a low-intensity conflict.
Cheats are fun, indeed.
To not so bad ass long coat. Er, wut, Jack is a 10th gen, PC is 8th. He's by no means ancient. Victorian Age at the latest, Dark Ages at the VERY earliest. He's not so much as ancient, as one of the older anarchs, and looked up to by a lot of them. And given greater reach within the Free State because of it.
As to Prince with no power. It's been answered before, but I think I'll clarify. He had power, but he was a figurehead de Jure leadership attempting to rebel against the de Facto leadership of the Primogen Council and Nines. The problem was, there are repercussions for offing a prince by the Camarilla Law. That and he had a fucking Laibon Tzimisce as a body guard. Your PC is also quite likely one of the lower gen members of the domain. Your sire being one of the lowest. So being able to kill your sire, a low generation member of the domain, likely VERY VERY old(7th gen is mid roman era), and eliminate a potential power player against him. That goal was accomplished, leaving the pitiful inexperienced childe alive, there was very little risk there. If you accomplish your goals, his tasks are furthered, if you don't, and die, you are a risk that's been eliminated. He also ingratiated himself to a significant portion of the domain by doing so.
Also to elaborate further on Jack, he's mentioned, I think, in one, ONE paragraph of the Anarch Guide. He may feature in a novel somewhere. Didn't really read those.
edited 28th Sep '10 1:07:21 AM by Rolla
The LA sourcebook features Jack, as I recall. Quite extensively. He's pretty explicitly described as a well-respected ancilla.
I'm unsure also if it's canonical that the VTM PC is 8th generation, or if this is just a change for gameplay's sake, and he's meant to be a 12th generation regular Vampire PC; I always felt the latter was more likely because, well, a genuine seventh generation vampire wouldn't be cavorting with random mortals in a dingy apartment. He'd be either dust, in Torpor, or deeply involved in the Jyhad. And likely wouldn't really need permission from the Prince to Embrace. If he was 7th generation, my guess would be through diablerie - remember, LA is a longstanding Anarch domain, which doesn't make diablerie okay within it, but also means that rigid Camarilla laws against it don't apply - and thus nobody actually knows that the PC is 8th generation, although La Croix might come to suspect it given how the PC, you know, plows through warehouses full of shovelheads like it was nothing.
There's also the issue of La Croix' Domination not working on the PC at the very end; there are Fanon explanations for this, one of which is the PC having diablerised the Tzimisce and thus moved up above La Croix generation. Indeed, the fact that La Croix can Dominate the PC sort of counts against the 8th-gen theory; La Croix is a very young prince, pretty much an Ancilla. He states that he was an officer in Napoleon's army, which is weird (Because I always imagined the French Revolution must've put the French Ventrue in complete disarray and mostly unable to embrace anyone, let alone officers in the revolutionary army) but puts the date of his embrace in 1802 at the earliest. This makes La Croix younger than Jack, and it's unlikely that La Croix was Embraced into the 7th generation or earlier. Possibly, he is a diablerist, of course; after all, his motivation for the entire plot was to drink an Antediluvian, but wanting to take the opportunity to diablerise an Antediluvian doesn't really peg someone as an experienced diablerist, much in the same way that wanting to get a sample of the Psycho Serum doesn't peg you as a PCP addict.
Also, I thought the Sheriff was a Laibon Gangrel? What with turning into a giant bat and having animalistic features.
Based on NSBAL's ranting, I'm going to assume that this game, while good, is not for World Of Darkness purists.
Well, good thing I'm not one of them. I just want it because it looks like a good wrpg. I don't even play WoD.
NSBLC is just a ranty man, really. I'm sure plenty of oWoD purists enjoy the game.
I enjoy it, and I'm a fan of WoD.
I'm one of those Wo D "purists" and I enjoyed the game...for what it was...and after the fan patches were applied. It was kind of like Deus Ex IW - after I divorced it from its source material, I could tolerate it, then enjoy it. I'll admit, though, that was pretty difficult in both instances.
I want another Vampire RPG, and have more Bender, er, I mean Jack.
Played again. I think the only ending for Malkavian is Lone Wolf and flipping Nines off.
Well, that is the best ending, in my opinion.
I do like a Tremere going to Strauss.
Just started a couple days ago, and I'm enjoying it so far. Unfortunately, I've run into some pretty bad bugs, the worst of which would have made the game Unwinnable by Mistake (the door to Tung's hideout wouldn't open) if I hadn't entered noclip mode.
I installed the most recent fan-made patch...Or at least, I think I did. I'm not sure if it worked.
Unofficial patch or the other one?
And yeah, I had to install a patch to get game work at all because there is bug that prevents it working with windows 7 so I haven't really encountered bugs at all because of the patch.
In a twisted sense of IRONY, this Kindred Thread arises from the grave, to suck life from posters.
Because Paradox are teasing something for the 21st March...
For those who wish to deny clicks; after the Tender (An ARG website with some interesting layers and clear Vampire links) it looks like we may be getting a remake of Bloodlines.
The site shwos several images from the game - Oceanview hotel, the Malkavian Mansion, the place you fight Andrej.
So, either a sequel with some notable touch points or a remaster / remake. Honestly not sure which I'd prefer. A remake but with a larger open world? A better, more stable game with fewer loading screens? A better last few levels with minimal combat?
I mean, I have bought 5 copies of this game over the years.
Be interesting to see which way this goes - I know the game has its detractors but I loved it.
I would prefer a followup, but I wouldn't say no to a remaster either.
In favour of a remake as currently the only way to play it properly it was with a fanpatch
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