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Falrinn Random Internet Person from A location definable in 4 dimensional terms
Random Internet Person
Nov 3rd 2018 at 2:43:16 PM

[up][up] The Daughter of the Sea song (and the Warbringer animation) does portray him positively, but keep in mind that Daughter of the Sea is basically Unreliable Narrator: The Song.

In-universe it was written by people who weren't there and would have every reason to interpret whatever version of events they revived in a manner that portrayed Daelin in the most positive light possible.

And this isn't an assumption. The ultimate conclusion the Jaina storyline makes regarding Daelin is that he got himself killed by getting involved in a conflict he didn't have to be involved in.

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LordVatek Not really a lord of anything
Not really a lord of anything
Nov 3rd 2018 at 3:52:51 PM

Chris Metzen asked a question on the Q&A. He wants Thrall back as Warchief.

This song needs more love.
Nov 3rd 2018 at 4:41:11 PM

They also called the last minute moral choice in the Saurfang quest an "experiment" regarding player agency and (I believe) that the choice won't majorly change the planed storyline, which alleviates most of my fears from when the choice was first added.

...I still think the Sylvanas fans and diehard Horde fans were taking the whole situation way too seriously, though.

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Falrinn Random Internet Person from A location definable in 4 dimensional terms
Random Internet Person
Nov 3rd 2018 at 4:51:17 PM

Blizzard did originally plan for him to make an appearance in 8.0, but that got cut. Probably in part to give more focus to Talanji and partly because Chis Metzen had spinal surgery and wasn't available to do a lot of voiceacting (he did record a few lines as Varian for the Jaina questline though).

However, cut from 8.0 doesn't mean cut from the expansion.

And to go sailing straight into WMGwild mass guess land, Thrall was in Deepholme the last time we saw him and was having trouble connecting with the elements. Deepholme is connected to the Maelstrom which is in the middle of the ocean. That means it's not out of the question he got nabbed by Queen Azshara.

It would at least explain his absence from recent events, and even if Thrall managed to reconnect with the elements, Queen Azshara is one of the few beings on Azeroth who could plausibly hold him indefinitely.

And to go even further into WMG land, I'm going to go ahead and predict that we won't kill Azshara in her raid...but we will free Thrall.

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Nov 3rd 2018 at 4:54:35 PM

I dunno, Raids are usually where the final battles against major lore villains take place, the sole exception that I recall being Kael'thas and Kil'Jaeden, and even the latter only lasted until the second raid featuring him.

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Falrinn Random Internet Person from A location definable in 4 dimensional terms
Random Internet Person
Nov 3rd 2018 at 5:14:59 PM

[up] Obviously it's hard to say at this point.

It just feels odd for someone as big of a deal as Azshara to die as a mid-expansion boss, so I prefer exploring possibilities that don't include her dying. Azshara surviving her raid would hardly be unique. Aside from Kael'thas and Kil'jaeden, we also have Garrosh and Jaina, and if you count survivals that weren't revealed in short order we could add both Illidan and Helyanote  to the list.

I suppose whether she dies or not is unconnected to whether or not my crackpot theory on Thrall is correct.

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LordVatek Not really a lord of anything
Not really a lord of anything
Nov 3rd 2018 at 5:16:45 PM

[up]It would be odd for Azshara to die mid-expansion... if N'Zoth weren't hinted to be the final boss. In that case it's just the natural progression.

Edited by LordVatek on Nov 3rd 2018 at 8:17:04 AM

This song needs more love.
Nov 3rd 2018 at 5:18:55 PM

[up][up] Not to turn this into a debate, but Kil'Jaeden was the mid-expansion boss of Legion, and he was one of the biggest and most important lore villains in the franchise.

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Falrinn Random Internet Person from A location definable in 4 dimensional terms
Random Internet Person
Nov 3rd 2018 at 5:39:17 PM

[up] That's a valid point.

To be clear however, I'm not even saying she definitively has a greater than 50:50 chance of survival. I'm saying that the possibility is high enough to be seriously considered and because in the wholly subjective opinion I hold at this moment I feel like 8.2 is too soon to kill her off, so when theorizing I'm going to lean in that direction.

[up][up] One of the more crackpot ideas I'm toying around with is that Azshara ultimately allies with us against N'Zoth. Her alliance with N'Zoth is born of pragmatism rather than any true devotion, and she wants to rule Azeroth not destroy it.

Could be that in raiding her Eternal Palace, we inadvertently tear up any "insurance policies" N'Zoth has in place to ensure her loyalty.

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Kiefen MINE! from Germany Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
MINE!
Nov 3rd 2018 at 6:12:37 PM

Nice Wo W:Classic will actually timegate the four raid tiers, very good, that alone will raise my motivation to actively play it.

googlebot Herald of Endless Research.
Herald of Endless Research.
Nov 3rd 2018 at 10:33:04 PM

Azhara will be trapped in Xal'atath's blade.wild mass guess

“You can’t be an important and life-changing presence for some people without also being a joke and embarrassment to others.” -Mark Manson.
Falrinn Random Internet Person from A location definable in 4 dimensional terms
Random Internet Person
Nov 4th 2018 at 5:58:44 PM

I happened to do the Gral (aka the Shark Loa) questline in Zuldazar again, and now that we have a glimpse of things to come, it's loaded with potential foreshadowing of 8.2.

There is some implication that since the Cataclysm N'Zoth has been pressing his side of his arrangement with Azshara or that she's been dabbling a little too deeply in the void.note  To the point where Gral admits that he would feel sorry for her if she didn't destroy his temple and massacre his followers.

That does lead some credit to my theory that the Eternal Palace Raid will involve us (perhaps unwittingly) destroying everything N'Zoth can hold over her. Resulting in her helping us kill N'Zoth for good and save Azeroth.

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Falrinn Random Internet Person from A location definable in 4 dimensional terms
Random Internet Person
Nov 5th 2018 at 1:35:46 PM

Found an interesting BlizzCon interview

A lot of it's been covered in this thread already, but there are a couple points I want to highlight.

1. The theory that the Drust are an offshoot of the Vrykul is confirmed.

2. They can't yet reveal how Zandalari Paladins have their powers without Rezen, which means there is likely another story beat here during the actual unlock chain.

3. There's still a chance Kul Tirans will get Mages.

To speculate further on the second point, I think Vol'jin is going to become the new Loa of Kings and empower the Zandalari Paladins. And furthermore, I think Rezen himself is responsible for Vol'jin becoming a Loa.

Vol'jin became a Loa at some point between his death and stage 1 of the Vol'jin questline. Rezen's death occurs during that time period.

We know that Loa can be reborn after a very long time, and Rezen was merely killed (he didn't have his power stolen). My theory is that Rezen understood the gravity of the situation and did the only thing he could from The Other Side. He transferred his power to Vol'jin's spirit, which transformed Vol'jin into a Loa who could return to the mortal world, with Rezen's Loa power, immediately. This had the side effects of causing Vol'jin's memory problems and why Vol'jin was so worried about G'huun when he's first contacted (Vol'jin got essentially an echo of Rezen's own anger at G'huun).

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RedSavant Demon
Demon
Nov 6th 2018 at 2:27:27 AM

An interesting article discussing (lightly) some of the design philosophy differences between WoW Classic and current WoW, which all sounds about right to me.

Falrinn Random Internet Person from A location definable in 4 dimensional terms
Random Internet Person
Nov 6th 2018 at 2:22:18 PM

[up][up] Blizzard has confirmed Kul Tiran Mages and deconfirmed Zandalari Warlocks.

I can't help but feel that the exact class list was still being finalized when the Blizz Con presentation was being put together.

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NaraNumas Pun Dragon
Pun Dragon
Nov 7th 2018 at 12:31:49 AM

[up][up][up] One of the other things I saw that made me go hrmm is that they said there's a chance Void Elves might get High Elf customization.

Honestly, I'm all for that in the same way as we're getting Night Warriors; make it a storyline-unlocked customization option that the Void Elves find a way to gain enough control to outwardly return to normal. It silences the constant high elf complaining and doesn't waste an Allied Race slot/resources on another blood elf reskin.

Nov 7th 2018 at 12:50:03 AM

If they do that then they gotta do that for most everyone that isnt worthy of an allied race like Leper Gnomes, Frost Trolls or Taruka.

Druplesnubb Editor of Posts
Editor of Posts
Nov 7th 2018 at 3:05:14 AM

I mean, humans but fatter are already an allied race, so that ship's pretty much passed. Also suspect that Taunka and Frostborn are gonna be allied races for a Return to Northrend expansion.

Falrinn Random Internet Person from A location definable in 4 dimensional terms
Random Internet Person
Nov 7th 2018 at 3:16:00 AM

[up][up]

In a way, I kind of feel like the whole point of Allied Races was to add races just like those. Of the 8 Allied Races we've gotten so far, only one (Kul Tiran humans) have a completely new model, and all of them have been close variants of existing races in one way or another.

That isn't to say it always has to be that way, there's a reason I have my eye on the Vulpera in particular, but the standards are going to be much lower for Allied Races then they are for conventional races.

Or to put it another way, if we demand the same level of uniqueness for Allied Races as we do for conventional races, then there's no point in Allied Races even being a thing.

That isn't to say I'm against adding character customization options where it makes sense, High Elf skin tones for Void Elves is a workable idea. It's just that that concept can only be stretched so far.

Edited by Falrinn on Nov 7th 2018 at 6:16:17 AM

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Nov 7th 2018 at 10:00:58 AM

That interview from a while back also confirmed that the whole "Saurfang vs Sylvanas" plotline is gonna be the game's first true branching narrative.

Honestly, I'm still uneasy about all this. Its blatantly obvious that this was a last minute addition to placate the diehard Sylvanas and Horde fans who were burning forums down over "betraying" their precious Warchief, but if they actually make something decent out of this, I guess its okay. I mean, ESO also does branching narratives, but those are primarily limited to self contained stories that don't actually impact the overall plotlines aside from certain characters reacting differently to you or altered dialogue.

...#Team Saurfang

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Fighteer Geronimo! from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Geronimo!
Nov 7th 2018 at 10:05:24 AM

[up] Really? "Blatantly obvious", is it? That's why they had fully-rendered cinematics setting the stage for that choice, because they're doing this on the fly.

Don't let your jade-colored glasses distort your thinking. Blizzard has had this set up for a long time.

Frankly, the degree to which players are making up reasons to dislike this expansion's story is nothing short of pathological, and actually makes me worried about the future of narrative gaming.

Edited by Fighteer on Nov 7th 2018 at 1:11:04 PM

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LordVatek Not really a lord of anything
Not really a lord of anything
Nov 7th 2018 at 10:10:38 AM

The Old Republic also has branching narratives but that's just a single player game that pretends it's an MMO.

As for this, it's all pretty meh. Sylvanas will be deposed as warchief with or without the player's input.

This song needs more love.
Falrinn Random Internet Person from A location definable in 4 dimensional terms
Random Internet Person
Nov 7th 2018 at 10:50:40 AM

It depends on what they mean by "branching narrative". My impression is that the only thing that changes based on your choice is the pathway your character takes through story, the story itself doesn't really change.

As for when Blizzard chose this route, in a way I don't actually care. As long as they are doing it in the name of making the story better (in this case, maybe it was too early to establish a mandatory and explicitly antagonistic relationship between the Horde character and Sylvanas) matters little to me wether it was planned from the start or they came up with the plan after reading player feedback.

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NaraNumas Pun Dragon
Pun Dragon
Nov 7th 2018 at 11:04:29 AM

[up]X5

I think it's okay to blur the lines with things that verge of being the same except for really minor differences, same reason I would have also been fine if blood elves got blue eyes as an option.

For the most part, I just don't want to see existing skeletons recycled for an Allied Race more than once, so for instance, would rather see leper gnomes for normal gnomes if we get mechagnomes, wildhammers for ironforge dwarves because have dark irons, and high elves for either blood or void elves so we don't have a third forest-elf race. The only reason I'm not raising a stink over Zandalari being based on Night Elves when we already have Nightborne is a mix of grandfather clause and they have unique animations mixed in with it, but if they were a 1:1 copy/paste job I'd have a few words to say.

Edited by NaraNumas on Nov 7th 2018 at 2:05:19 PM


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