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Regardless of the particulars, I do think the idea that the Orcs have had a character deficit is valid and MoP is the root cause of it.
But I do think it's a fixable problem, and basically all the ingredients are there to fix it. But we haven't quite gotten there yet.
@ Zandalar Paladins: Woooohooo I know where my 110 boost will go, Ptherodax sweep seems to be a re-skinned Goblin Gilder as some expected, not bad all things considered, gotta wait how the praying mechanic will work exactly.
Edited by Kiefen on Nov 2nd 2018 at 10:47:42 AM
@Sarufang, He is completely an alliance asset, he was released specifically to cause chaos inside the Horde. How the mighty have fallen, from considered the strongest in the horde in vanilla thanks to his meme boss status to traitor and tool of the enemy. There was a reason why Vol'jin did not just run to the alliance for help....
That was the absolute worst thing they could have done with him, it completely invalidates his entire plot line. About the only way to recover is if he wins and becomes leader of the Horde or strikes a deal with Sylvanas then completely wrecks Alliance face.... or dies a terrible coup attempt.
Edited by Memers on Nov 2nd 2018 at 3:26:14 AM
The World of Warcraft panel has started. Right now it's just a recap of 8.1 but they will go past that.
Edited by LordVatek on Nov 2nd 2018 at 7:03:31 AM
New in-game cinematic. Terror of Darkshore.
<3 Papa Malfurion.
Continuing from last post:
And that's it!
Edited by LordVatek on Nov 2nd 2018 at 7:17:58 AM
Please no please no please no, don't say allied race, dungeon and content is fine but no allied race.
You seem far too invested in their NOT being a Gnome-variant Allied Race.
Plenty of potential Allied Races don't interest me enough to want to play one, but whether or not I'll roll one personally is is a trivial concern in the question of "would this make a good Allied Race for the game as a whole"
The Zandalar class list is good, though I'm surprised they got monk instead of Warlock. Zandalari paladins was the most important thing to me and I'm very glad they're included.
RE: Some New Guy
What notable orc characters were shown to oppose Garrosh, just Thrall, Saurfang, and Eitrigg. Thrall was pretty much permanently Put on a Bus not long after, then Saurfang gets discredited in BFA, leaving the elderly Eitrigg as the only orc character left Blizzard is still using. And note Blizzard had to entirely rewrite Eitrigg's character to make him a Gung ho PV Ping Warrior as opposed to the retired advisor he was in the past.
Worst of all, none of those orcs really represent the common orc of the next generation. Thrall was raised by an abusive human, while Saurfang and Eitrigg are both elderly veterans of the first and second wars. Where is the new generation, Blizzard promised.
All the minor orc NP Cs like Runthak(Saurfang's right hand) and Bloodhilt(a close friend of the tauren before MOP) also suffered Character Derailment to be evil Garrosh clones. All the new orc NP Cs they introduced in MOP all turned out to be evil. Even the Mag'har all sided with Garrosh and we killed them by the truckload. You can look at all the named orcs here, the list is huge and many of them were prior NP Cs.
Then immediately afterwards WOD further ruined the orc narrative by retconning it so orcs were Evil All Along and re-killing all the heroes of the Horde.
The only orc characters left are those Blizzard has entirely forgotten.
Blizzard said killing off the old orc heroes wouldn't matter because there'd be a new generation of heroes, we'll so much for the next generation, they're all dead or forgotten.
I don't think Sylvanas is Horde warchief material either, but she's all the Forsaken have. As proven with Garrosh, removing her will only hurt the Horde identity and leave the Forsaken without any characters left.
The Horde as a whole barely has any prominent heroes period and Sylvanas+Rokhan are the only Heroes they still have from any prior Warcraft game.
Edited by Monsund on Nov 2nd 2018 at 4:24:19 AM
Mechagnomes being a potential allied race were my words. They didn't say anything about it. But they're regular gnomes with jaws, arms, and legs replaced with robotic body parts and there are quite a few different variants. Seems kind of probable to me.
Edited by LordVatek on Nov 2nd 2018 at 7:21:44 AM
And my answer to that is that keeping Sylvanas around as a Horde leader indefinately in spite of everything she's done means considering a piece of Forsaken or Horde identity as being more valuable then the narrative structure of the entire franchise.
And that's a bridge I am wholly unwilling to cross, full stop. I will burn that bridge to cinders before I even consider setting a single foot on it.
Okay, I'll admit that was a little harsh. But my core point is that the story of one race or character can't be placed above the entire game. I get that it sucks if that means it's going to get worse for your favorite race with no solid guarantee of it getting better on the other end. But the solution can't be to make the whole narrative abruptly bend over backwards to accommodate them.
Edited by Falrinn on Nov 2nd 2018 at 7:33:50 AM
These are the new Mechagnomes by the way.
Do you mean removing Sylvanas as the War Chief of the Horde or the leader of the Forsaken?
If you mean the forsaken, going to have to disagree. Its clear the writers will always use the forsaken as the bad guy in the PVP conflicts, as mentioned they have trouble having the Alliance do wrong to the Horde period, with this in mind, there'd be no point to removing Sylvanas. We'd just get another evil Forsaken leader that antagonizes the Alliance, except they'd be less engaging and interesting.
RE: Lord Vatek
Mechagnomes are cute.
Though cool as cyborg gnomes are, I do think they and Light Forged Draenei are a little redundant, as they're essentially the base race with their main trait(Love of Machines/the light) exaggerated more.
Wonder if Hobgoblins/Gilgoblins will ever be a thing?
Edited by Monsund on Nov 2nd 2018 at 4:31:26 AM
New female Worgen models.◊
New male Worgen models.◊
I was against them because I felt like Mechagnomes would be out of nowhere and there were better choices to make. There was still a piece of me that was like "Okay, if they're at least cool I'll live"
After seeing them I'm against them even more because wow they don't look good.
Edited by NaraNumas on Nov 2nd 2018 at 6:38:19 AM
I think the issue I have here is that what your suggesting isn't a solution, it's a resignation. We don't really know what's going to happen with the Forsaken in a post-Sylvanas state, we can make guesses but that's all they will be until if and when it actually happens.
Ultimately Sylvanas can't stay around as a Horde leader because the narrative they have built thus far doesn't plausibly allow it. The Forsaken having an "interesting" leader isn't more important then following this story to it's best possible conclusion.
Anyways, arguing about Sylvanas aside. I think I did pretty good on my scorecard.
We got the actual release timeframe, so close.
8.1 trailer, which following the tradition of Legion will be a cinematic set early in the 8.1 story.
We definitely got an 8.1 trailer. Hard to say if it actually appears in game, but I think it will.
Vulpera and Cyborg Gnomes weren't officially confirmed, but they do seem to be a lock for future Allied Races. No new Warfront announced however, which is interesting. Could mean that we are going to see a downturn in the Horde/Alliance conflict within the scope of 8.2, or nothing. Hard to tell.
Well they didn't mention Ny'alotha specifically. But N'Zoth is definitely a lock.
I'd say that's a good scorecard. Didn't predict everything, but that's never really the point.
Edited by Falrinn on Nov 2nd 2018 at 7:53:44 AM
They started her on an arc to be an actual leader of the horde then did an about face, personally I think they need to rerail. After Sylvanas is gone there is no leader left who was around in Vanilla.
Blizzard's wishy washy writing has really REALLY shot themselves in the foot and pretty much guaranteed that one faction or the other is going to really go crazy or quit over whatever they do next.
Admittedly, with them having not been officially confirmed, there's still as much chance we'll get something else. I was originally against Jinyu, but these deep-sea Jinyu enslaved by the Naga are really cool looking, I'd be alright with them.
Also, I caught something interesting looking through the panel screenshots for 8.2 stuff.
Sylvanas is holding Xal'athath.
Edited by NaraNumas on Nov 2nd 2018 at 7:01:54 AM
I think in these sorts of situations we should be careful not to overestimate how much the average Warcraft player follows the lore outside of a very surface-level understanding.
I'd probably fall over in shock if you did a scientific poll (not a web poll that would be tainted by only covering the subset of people who do anything Warcraft-related outside the game beyond looking up how to finish a poorly worded quest or strats for boss fights) and you got more then 10% of the playerbase back who would think it's at all possible for them to quit the game for lore reasons alone.
How important is the fact that Sylvanas is one of the few WC 3-era Horde leaders left could possibly be to someone who never really played WC 3 and may not of jumped on the WoW train until Wrath or even later?
Regardless, it's hard to say exactly what Blizzard was planning when they made Sylvanas Warchief. Aside from the initial cinematic, she never really felt like she was putting the Horde's interests ahead of her own.
If they did intend for her to become a true Warchief of the whole Horde, then any chance to rerail went up in smoke with Teldrassil unfortunately.
Why not both?
I'd say there's a decent chance that we won't be getting any new Allied Races made playable until the late expansion drought. And we got 4 Allied Races in the last one, we could be getting Sethrek AND Vulpera for the Horde, and Cyborg Gnomes AND Jinyu for the Alliance.
Nazjatar looks really cool. Love the zone aesthetic.
I'd be fine with that, I do just think there's validity to the "Filler race" complaints related to Hightmountain and Lightforged, these Cybergnomes have a bit of that same feeling to me of a race for the sake of a race over a better candidate like Jinyu who are already with the Alliance, or highbreed Arrakoa who have similar values if you shave off the xenophobia.
I guess only time will tell though, hell, for all we know blizzard just showed off the really bad options and they'll have a few customization choices that look really cool.
Edited by NaraNumas on Nov 2nd 2018 at 7:27:40 AM
If they don't smoke Sylv they might do something similar to what they did with the Pandarens and have the race be split into two factions (or three depending on the nature of how the current conflict ends). Before the Storm set up Callia as some kind of lightborn undead so she might take over leadership of the Forsaken in some capacity.
I imagine they showed off what they had done, which isn't necessarily all the options they'll have when the patch drops and they'll likely have even more if and when they become playable.
Not to mention there's the question of what they'll look like in armor and how they'll animate. Robot parts might give them some very interesting animations (like making their legs longer while sprinting).
Edited by Falrinn on Nov 2nd 2018 at 8:34:28 AM
Uhhh...so one thing I just noticed while rummaging through MMO Champion and laughing at the diehard Sylvanas/Horde fans losing their shit over Sylvanas' vilification and Saurfang's glorification...
The very last slide of the panel shows a faint image of N'Zoth in the fish form he took in Azshara's Warbringers short.
I think we now know for sure who the Final Boss of this expansion is, and it ain't Sylvanas.
While my instinct is that N'Zoth will indeed be the final boss, that's actually not completely certain. There are lots of ways for him to dominate the story of 8.3 without him literally being the final boss, or even a boss at all. And all we really saw was him as a fish, there's only so many assumptions we can make from that.
And even if we simply grant that, it's hard to say exactly what that means for Sylvanas's story aside from not being a perfect mechanical repeat of MoP, but I never really considered that to be particularly likely.
Edited by Falrinn on Nov 2nd 2018 at 11:09:56 AM
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