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fasoman1996 Sup from Argentina (A.K.A. Naziland) Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Sup
Jun 4th 2019 at 7:33:24 PM

You know, i'm wondering if Warcraft should be made into a Franchise page instead of just troping the original three games

Chillin' rat.
sgamer82 from Meridian, ID
Jun 4th 2019 at 7:44:08 PM

Do we have pages for both books and comics too? If so that would satisfy the three namespace requirement.

Plus, remember how in Eragon everyone cries "a single tear"? Yeah, just try that with One Piece and see if it works
Falrinn Random Internet Person from A location definable in 4 dimensional terms
Random Internet Person
Jun 4th 2019 at 8:44:45 PM

Today's PTR build added a ton of in-game cutscenes. Might be a sign that the PTR will be wrapping up sooner rather than later since they added them all in one go rather then adding them one at a time as they finished developing them.

Not expecting the patch to drop next week, but anything beyond the week after that may be plausible. Though I admit I haven't really been on the PTR so it's hard for me to judge how complete the patch feels.

That being said, from what I've been hearing, apparently Blizzard intends to only wait a couple of weeks between 8.2 dropping and the start of Season 3. That might just be because the Battle of Dazar'alor has been running long enough, but I also can't help but wonder if they also want to get the Eternal Palace open before 8.2.5 even hits the PTR to keep 8.25 from spoiling some secret detail of the end of the Eternal Palace.

EDIT—-

It's been confirmed. While Rise of Azshara does not yet have an announced release date, Season 3 will start 2 weeks after the patch drops.

Edited by Falrinn on Jun 5th 2019 at 1:36:26 PM

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Demetrios The World's Cutest Detective from Wheeling, Illinois Relationship Status: Wishing you were here
The World's Cutest Detective
Jun 10th 2019 at 11:53:36 PM

I said this to one of the hozen pirates: "Say your prayers, you heathen baboon!" XD

Get me the Distortion World outta here!
TechPriest90 Servant of the Omnissiah from Collegia Titanica, Mars, Sol System Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Servant of the Omnissiah
Jun 11th 2019 at 1:46:00 AM

Could be there's something in there that they don't want people to find out. Most likely related to everyone's favorite Banshee.

I hold the secrets of the machine.
Falrinn Random Internet Person from A location definable in 4 dimensional terms
Random Internet Person
Jun 11th 2019 at 6:17:18 AM

[up] Quite possible. I did come across some datamining that suggests that the Alliance and Horde falling into Azshara's trap was part of Sylvanas's plan. That itself isn't close to the worst thing Sylvanas has done.

However, the big question is if Sylvanas was aware of Azshara's plan to use the Heart of Azeroth's power to free N'Zoth. Because if she was, then she seeks to either control N'Zoth, or has struck some kind of bargain. Either way, the outcome for anyone outside of a small core of ultraloyal followers is probably not good.

Edited by Falrinn on Jun 11th 2019 at 9:18:33 AM

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TechPriest90 Servant of the Omnissiah from Collegia Titanica, Mars, Sol System Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Servant of the Omnissiah
Jun 11th 2019 at 6:29:23 AM

Given that she took Knaifu at the end of the Crucible of Storms Raid, she almost certainly has cut a deal with the tentacle gribblies.

Hey, it's Sylvanas we're talking about - anything she does at this point is well within The Tyson Zone.

That said, the salt from the Sylvanas fanboys (and girls) is going to be copious enough that we'll need extra-strong pickaxes to dig through it all.

Edited by TechPriest90 on Jun 11th 2019 at 9:30:17 AM

I hold the secrets of the machine.
Falrinn Random Internet Person from A location definable in 4 dimensional terms
Random Internet Person
Jun 11th 2019 at 8:39:18 AM

[up] Yeah, like Sylvanas was never on the up and up as the classic Forsaken intro makes crystal clear. There was some potential for her to take a turn for the better after the fall of Arthas, but that wasn't the road she went down as Cataclysm made abundantly clear. A reckoning was always going to happen eventually, and the only thing that surprises me is that it didn't happen sooner.

Token Evil Teamates eventually either stop being evil, stop being teamates...or stop being token because letting such individuals get away with their actions because they are part of your "team" is itself a kind of evil.

Having said all of that I do have to admit that I dislike how this expansion is still tracking as close to MoP as it is. The fact that the biggest differences are often ways in which Sylvanas is worse then Garrosh was isn't really a plus here.

The Horde still had some introspection to do after MoP and Sylvanas was very much a part of that. But it didn't have to track so closely to MoP's story beats and probably would of been better if the Alliance and Horde were teetering on the edge of an all out war instead of actively engaged in one.

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TechPriest90 Servant of the Omnissiah from Collegia Titanica, Mars, Sol System Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Servant of the Omnissiah
Jun 11th 2019 at 9:23:24 AM

Fair enough, but there was literally no other way this would end.

She was pretty horrific even before the current expansion - but removing her before she explicitly jumped over the Moral Event Horizon wouldn't have made much sense. There's also the fact that she's a legacy character from the Warcraft RTS, and there's damn few of those left now.

I can rationalize the thought process behind making her a Hate Sink, but it's what you get when you write yourself into a corner - which is what Blizzard ultimately did.

They definitely could have done it better than another Red Versus Blue War though - that was absolutely unimaginative.

It's really saying something that the Old Gods seem downright reasonable when compared to her - because they're doing what they were meant to do, inborn nature and all that. With her, she has no excuse. At all.

Edited by TechPriest90 on Jun 11th 2019 at 12:24:39 PM

I hold the secrets of the machine.
unknowing "GREAT AND GLORIOUS DESAPAIR!" from somewhere..
"GREAT AND GLORIOUS DESAPAIR!"
Jun 11th 2019 at 9:25:48 AM

yeah the problem is not sylvanas being shady but being pretty much garrosh but worst, specially after vol jin just sort of die and having to fight orc again in warlord.

"There is only one truth in this life and that is DESPAIR!"
googlebot Herald of Endless Research.
Herald of Endless Research.
Jun 11th 2019 at 11:56:09 AM

Sylvanas problem stems from the Forsaken being part of the Horde. Bending over backwards to justify that is what made the story the way it is. Imo.

“You can’t be an important and life-changing presence for some people without also being a joke and embarrassment to others.” -Mark Manson.
Resileafs I actually wanted to be Resileaf
I actually wanted to be Resileaf
Jun 11th 2019 at 12:02:22 PM

The lore being a two-faction game for so long has severely limited development all around.

Falrinn Random Internet Person from A location definable in 4 dimensional terms
Random Internet Person
Jun 11th 2019 at 6:54:53 PM

[up] Yeah, that's actually part of why I think BfA might be a "last hurrah" of the faction conflict.

It's not something I would normally consider to be all that plausible. But WoW's been out for almost 15 years and might be due for a major shakeup. Plus with classic coming out, the traditional Horde v. Alliance setup will always be available.

Gameplay wise there's certainly a lot to untangle, but I think if we accept upfront that cross-faction gameplay need only be fully supported for new content it's actually pretty doable.

On another note, Season 2 will be ending soon. When exactly? No idea, the blue post just says "soon". My best guess is that Blizzard wants to release 8.2 next week, but aren't fully confident they'll make that goal so they aren't actually promising it.

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deludedmusings Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Jun 11th 2019 at 6:57:03 PM

I wonder if Legion had a large effect on people. For me personally, I just found the return to the same old crap dull after Legion.

TechPriest90 Servant of the Omnissiah from Collegia Titanica, Mars, Sol System Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Servant of the Omnissiah
Jun 12th 2019 at 1:32:51 AM

[up] Pretty much this.

See, that was a global effort to stop the Legion. And it wasn't just an Enemy Mine scenario - people were genuinely collaborating with each other for the greater good.

It's not a stretch to say both Alliance and Horde soldiers made considerable friendships with people on the other side. You'd have expected some backlash from within their own armies to something like this.

Red Versus Blue after all that sounds patently ridiculous.

I hold the secrets of the machine.
Wispy Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
Jun 12th 2019 at 2:43:01 AM

[up]That is always what my issue Bf A was concept wise. We just together beat the Legion back, Azeroth is wounded, and the Old God's are clearly trying to rise again.

Yeah sure, lets go back to killing each other and ignoring blatant Old God manipulations with both factions. Not going to backfire at all.

Sylvanas to me is just a caricature of evil these days that is the clincher of all of this. Like its clear that she is trying to drag everyone down to hell with her but all the Horde leaders are ignoring that until Baine gets imprisoned and Green Jesus and dude with questionable honor comes to save the day.

Edited by Wispy on Jun 12th 2019 at 2:45:25 AM

I used to go by the troper handles/names, Ecrivan and Bleddyn.
Falrinn Random Internet Person from A location definable in 4 dimensional terms
Random Internet Person
Jun 12th 2019 at 7:45:29 AM

[up][up] To be fair we did have the Sylvanas vs. Genn plot point in Legion. But the problem is instead of slowly rising in the background, it was a big deal in 7.0 and then never referenced again.

The fact the Alliance and Horde clashed in Stormheim (and the Warden towers) didn't stop the Alliance and Horde from explicitly working together during both the Suramar campaign and the Argus campaign. Nor did it ever cause any serious internal strife within the Class Orders. We never had to break up fights between our Alliance champions and our Horde champions.

Which still meant that the faction war went from almost zero to 100 in almost no time. But I can still kind of understand why, from a writer perspective, it didn't seem quite so sever.

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unknowing "GREAT AND GLORIOUS DESAPAIR!" from somewhere..
"GREAT AND GLORIOUS DESAPAIR!"
Jun 12th 2019 at 9:32:05 AM

the problem with this is the timeline of each big even in expansion made faction war weird.

have BFA happen after catalcysm or mist there you can said "ok, that seen logical" but now is just fight for the sake of fighting with sylvanas becoming the lighting rod of evil as garrosh was.

"There is only one truth in this life and that is DESPAIR!"
TechPriest90 Servant of the Omnissiah from Collegia Titanica, Mars, Sol System Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Servant of the Omnissiah
Jun 12th 2019 at 9:41:32 AM

The most you got in terms of Red versus Blue tension in Suramar were practical jokes. Most of them non-malicious and just friendly ribbing. Pretty good sign that both sides didn't see each other as monsters.

You go from that to "Rawr, Kill 'Em All" and most people are just left scratching their heads in confusion.

It would have been nice for Bf A to slowly ratchet up tensions until War breaks out, instead of it starting off right away. They did try that, credit where it's due, in the War of the Thorns scenario pre-expansion, but that was remarkably sparse besides the burning of Teldrassil.

They definitely could have handled it better.

I hold the secrets of the machine.
Falrinn Random Internet Person from A location definable in 4 dimensional terms
Random Internet Person
Jun 12th 2019 at 10:11:32 AM

[up][up] Even the War of Thorns was a full scale surprise invasion of Night Elf lands with the stated goal of seizing their capital city. That alone was a huge escalation over previous hostilities.

Honestly though, the thing that bugs me most is that they introduced Azerite, a substance of incredible latent power that no one fully understood, and then only gave it a token involvement in the opening events of the expansion.

It was the perfect plot device to allow a minor skirmish to escalate out of control. So for example someone deploys an expiramental Azerite weapon that turns out to be an order of magnitude more powerful then they thought, turning a precision strike into a nuke that levels a small town.

Or perhaps the Burning of Teldrassil happens because the Horde legitmately doesn't consider the possibility that Azerite could get the whole tree to ignite.

Or maybe one faction tries to sabotage the other's Azerite stockpiles, but underestimate how much damage it would do, turning a clandestine mission that wasn't meant to have any casualties into something indistinguishable from a devastating military strike.

Edited by Falrinn on Jun 12th 2019 at 1:12:00 PM

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sgamer82 from Meridian, ID
Jun 12th 2019 at 11:02:40 AM

I always considered the Horde and Alliance working in Suramar a case of Teeth-Clenched Teamwork. The pranks were an outlet, and effectively harmless, but were still based around insensitive/racist/speciesist jokes that could readily offend real life people and get out of control.

Plus, remember how in Eragon everyone cries "a single tear"? Yeah, just try that with One Piece and see if it works
Demetrios The World's Cutest Detective from Wheeling, Illinois Relationship Status: Wishing you were here
The World's Cutest Detective
Jun 12th 2019 at 3:44:29 PM

What is it with Flynn and leaning against things? tongue

Get me the Distortion World outta here!
MetaflarePrime DNC from cashmoney Relationship Status: Chocolate!
DNC
Jun 12th 2019 at 3:48:17 PM

hes a dashing rouge and has to look the part

FIGHT CRIME IN A CASUAL WAY
TechPriest90 Servant of the Omnissiah from Collegia Titanica, Mars, Sol System Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Servant of the Omnissiah
Jun 13th 2019 at 12:18:50 AM

[up][up][up][up] I mean, before Blizzard showed that Sylvanas did it out of petty spite, that was pretty much everyone's assumption - that the burning of the tree was an accident.

The general strain of thought was there was some accident during an artillery strike with Azerite Veins growing into the tree, that caused the whole thing to combust when the Horde attacked. Making it look like an atrocity when it wasn't.

Instead, it's an atrocity without any excuse. She deliberately committed genocide just to prove a petty point. That's how much of a monster she is.

Poor old Saurfang yelling that she's damned the Horde forever is pretty much spot on.

Edited by TechPriest90 on Jun 13th 2019 at 3:19:12 PM

I hold the secrets of the machine.

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