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Apr 24th 2019 at 1:43:22 PM

Double post with more PTR musings.

I noticed on wowhead that some people are beginning to think that Gazlowe's increasing relevance in the Horde-side stories could potentially be paving the way for him to become the new Goblin racial leader in the offchance that Gallywix doesn't make it by the end of the expansion. Thoughts on that? Personally, while Gazlowe can certainly be a bit of a prick at times (especially towards the Alliance), he's still much more likeable and leader-material than Gallywix ever was.

Shamelessly plugging my comics, Oh yes.
Falrinn Random Internet Person from A location definable in 4 dimensional terms
Random Internet Person
Apr 24th 2019 at 3:48:50 PM

[up] It's certainly nowhere close to the craziest idea I've come across. In fact if, Goblins were a vanilla Horde race, Gazlowe would of almost certainly been their racial leader given that he helped build Orgrimmar in the Founding of Durotar TFT campaign.

In this specific case I think Blizzard's primary goal was to give the Horde a recognizable Goblin representative on Mechagon who could believably align with the Rustbolt Resistance in mostly good faith, which Gazlowe would fit better then Gallywix regardless of their long-term goals. But if they do intend to replace Gallywix, getting Gazlowe out in front of players in a prominent way is consistent with this goal.

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sgamer82 from Meridian, ID
Apr 24th 2019 at 4:10:57 PM

The only real point against is that Gazlowe isn't Bilgewater Cartel. Unless Steamwheedle engages in a hostile takeover I can't see a scenario where Gazlowe is viable.

Plus, remember how in Eragon everyone cries "a single tear"? Yeah, just try that with One Piece and see if it works
Falrinn Random Internet Person from A location definable in 4 dimensional terms
Random Internet Person
Apr 24th 2019 at 5:32:00 PM

[up] Goblin Cartels are likely structured more like companies then like traditional governments. Which means the notion that they might go for an outside hire if there's an opening in the Trade Prince position isn't that out there.

I could totally see a situation where Gallywix is killed/pushed out/otherwise removed from the board, and the remaining higher-ups in the Bilgewater Cartel simply make Gazlowe a job offer that he accepts.

I like liking things
Demetrios The World's Cutest Detective from Wheeling, Illinois Relationship Status: Wishing you were here
The World's Cutest Detective
Apr 28th 2019 at 3:09:21 PM

What's the deal with the City Invader thing going on? surprised And why do some of them have ravens flying off of them when they die? :S

Edited by Demetrios on Apr 28th 2019 at 5:25:01 AM

Get me the Distortion World outta here!
Apr 28th 2019 at 6:11:40 PM

Its apparently part of a one-day "micro-event" where you get buffs from capital city guards by saluting them. Defeating a certain amount of Invaders rewards you with a title based on what city you killed them in.

Sadly, I literally just found this out, but hey, now I know for next year. 8P

Shamelessly plugging my comics, Oh yes.
sgamer82 from Meridian, ID
May 11th 2019 at 8:41:46 AM Plus, remember how in Eragon everyone cries "a single tear"? Yeah, just try that with One Piece and see if it works
Resileafs I actually wanted to be Resileaf
I actually wanted to be Resileaf
May 11th 2019 at 9:15:32 AM

DoU yOu FeEl OlD yEt?

Edit: Wow, auto linking really messes the formating.

Edited by Resileafs on May 11th 2019 at 7:37:30 AM

sgamer82 from Meridian, ID
May 11th 2019 at 1:50:40 PM

Put the parts you don't want to link in between [= and =]

Plus, remember how in Eragon everyone cries "a single tear"? Yeah, just try that with One Piece and see if it works
Resileafs I actually wanted to be Resileaf
I actually wanted to be Resileaf
May 11th 2019 at 4:38:00 PM

What witchcraft is this?!

Falrinn Random Internet Person from A location definable in 4 dimensional terms
Random Internet Person
May 13th 2019 at 6:04:05 AM

I've been thinking a lot about the idea of the next expansion potentially being a Return to Northrend expansion.

One idea I've come up with is that the Dragon Isles could actually be folded into such an expansion and be north of Northrend. Previously I've been hesitant to embrace the Dragon Isles as a setting because they've only been canonically mentioned once in a semi-hidden quest. But when I think of them in this context, they work a lot better. Dragons after all have a deep historical connection to Northrend, so it makes sense they would be located nearby.

This would also ensure that Azjol-Nerub wouldn't have to bear the full weight of any completely new zones a Return to Northrend expansion would bring.

On the villain front I'm going to push aside the question of how Sylvanas will be involved (because honestly I have no idea beyond probably not having a leadership role in the Horde) for the momment, and focus on the other options.

Here I think Island Expeditions give us a good indication. Helya is explicitly still alive so her Kvaldir might make a return, and I think it's very possible that Jorun Bloodwakenote  could serve as a replacement for King Ymirom.

Mal'ganas could also make a return. He was unaccounted for during Legion and I think it might be time to see what the remnants of the Burning Legion are up to.

Beyond that we have Kel'Thuzad. Chronicle indicated that his soul was "consumed by the Shadowlands", which I see as an opportunity. Reintroduce him as a hearld of the unknown death god that is implied to be lurking in the Shadowlands, once again leading the Cult of the Damned (who are still active according to island expeditions).

Between all of these enemies, I'd also suggest having the Helm of Domination be destroyed or depowered in the opening act of the expansion, resulting in a mass of feral undead causing all sorts of problems.

The main problem I'm running into however is that I have no idea who the main villain is.note  The obvious choice is the death god, but it would be highly unusual to have expansion's main villian be a character whose very name isn't uttered until shortly before the expansion itself. If the death god turns out to be an established character that kind of fixes it, but I'm totally blanking on coming up with any viable candidates.

Sorry if that was a little long, I just felt like rambling a bit I guess.

Edited by Falrinn on May 13th 2019 at 9:05:32 AM

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Kiefen MINE! from Germany Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
Fighteer Geronimo! from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Geronimo!
May 13th 2019 at 6:20:00 AM

I am very carefully avoiding spoilers for 8.2, but I don't think Sylvanas can continue as leader of the Horde post-BfA, assuming she survives and doesn't pull some sort of heroic sacrifice to destroy N'Zoth. I've stood by Blizzard's story writing despite all the complaints because it's interesting and dynamic, but even that wouldn't sustain my enjoyment if the Horde is corrupted by an evil Warchief for a third expansion.

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Kiefen MINE! from Germany Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
MINE!
May 13th 2019 at 6:30:25 AM

My problem with ousting Sylvanas would be that there would be little reason left for the Forsaken to even be in the Horde afterwards.

They either go down with her or join Callia which would mean joining the Alliance, but forcing all Forsaken players to switch factions just won't happen.

Resileafs I actually wanted to be Resileaf
I actually wanted to be Resileaf
May 13th 2019 at 6:32:04 AM

Hurray for Blizzard writing themselves into a corner!

Fighteer Geronimo! from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Geronimo!
May 13th 2019 at 6:36:41 AM

The Forsaken have been odd ducks in the Horde since the very beginning of WoW, so this is less "painted into a corner" than it is "faced with the logical progression of their core story line".

The thing about that is that the Desolate Council (am I remembering that right?) and Calia Menethil parts of the story occur mainly in side material that the player base doesn't get to interact with. This means that Blizzard is free to ignore it or run with it when it comes to future content.

For a while, I'd thought that the branching narrative for Horde players might lead to a third faction developing, but that seems increasingly unlikely. Instead, much like the Orcs who supported Garrosh, all the "we are evil and we will own it" Forsaken will be killed or quietly hide and hope to avoid the war crimes tribunals once Sylvanas is dealt with, and the Horde will return to the status quo wherein the Forsaken are not trusted by default.

Now, I do still think we're being set up to allow playable Alliance Forsaken, possibly as an Allied Race (Lightbound Forsaken, perhaps?) with Calia as the leader.

It would be nice if some of the Forsaken territory could get pushed back, for a bit of gameplay and story synchronicity. It makes little sense to have all of the blight-filled towns populated by enthusiastic genocidal murderers remain on the map once the political impetus for them has gone away.

And none of this addresses the biggest elephant in the room, or more like the Titan in the middle of the planet: Azeroth herself. Will she be born at the end of all this, and will her birth herald the final battle against the Void? Let's get cosmic again — after all, it is the best part of WoW.

Edited by Fighteer on May 13th 2019 at 9:42:00 AM

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sgamer82 from Meridian, ID
May 13th 2019 at 6:47:07 AM

I could see Calia's Forsaken remaining within the Horde. It's well established the Alliance in general wants nothing to do with them. It's why they joined the Horde in the first place, protection from the Alliance.

So Calia leads the Forsaken but keeps them in the Horde because, on the whole, there isn't really an alternative.

Plus, remember how in Eragon everyone cries "a single tear"? Yeah, just try that with One Piece and see if it works
Fighteer Geronimo! from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Geronimo!
May 13th 2019 at 6:49:35 AM

Ehhhhhh. So Derek Proudmoore will just slink away quietly and it won't work out for them, eh? Well, at least it's thematically consistent. I guess I'm hoping that the people trying to work towards tolerance and reconciliation will get more out of it. If humans and Forsaken can get along, then there's hope that the faction war won't last forever.

Oh, and that means we could get Lightbound Forsaken as a Horde Allied Race, which would be cool.

Edited by Fighteer on May 13th 2019 at 9:50:24 AM

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Kiefen MINE! from Germany Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
MINE!
May 13th 2019 at 7:05:49 AM

With Blizzard claiming that Sylvanas will make Garrosh look like an amateur I seriously wonder what her end-game will be. It must be awesome if she let the chance for instantaneously annihilating the entire Alliance slip. Because she really could've done just that, she had:

  • A general willingness to kill civilians
  • A head start access to a super volatile substance
  • Any number of Goblins
  • A guy who can teleport anything everywhere as long as he knows the coordinates or has a single person carry a beacon to that location

Any combination of the above should've resulted in her winning the war in an afternoon.

Edited by Kiefen on May 13th 2019 at 4:06:22 PM

Fighteer Geronimo! from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Geronimo!
May 13th 2019 at 7:17:08 AM

Well, the good news is that if she keeps racking up the atrocities, I will enthusiastically support the Horde being crushed and put in internment camps again, assuming there's anyone left to do it once N'Zoth has finished killing the planet.

Also, I really doubt that Oculeth would stand for his teleportation magic being used to drop WMDs in Alliance cities. I quested for the guy; he's really quite nice. Joining the Horde doesn't automatically mean you get handed the Villain Ball.

Edited by Fighteer on May 13th 2019 at 10:28:38 AM

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Kiefen MINE! from Germany Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
MINE!
May 13th 2019 at 7:29:19 AM

Woooohoooo N'zoth! Kill all the posers...erm...<hides the eyeball on his forehead> the old gods are bad and shouldn't be trusted!

I guess at this point there is a 50/50 chance that N'zoth will be the endboss of this expansion. Should he be not, I expect a whole Black Empire expansion including a remade Azol'Nerub and AQ, which could be sorta combined with a "Return to Northrend" expansion, since Ulduar, the Dragon Isles and Yogg Saron would thematically fit into such a scenario.

Edit: Well Oculeth is also a bit scatterbrained, Sylvanas could pretend to just have him teleport some "containers" for "research" while the beacons on the other side are actually already deep within Alliance territory. Assuming of course he doesn't have to know a telemancy-beacon's exact location, but if that weren't the case what would even be their point.

Edited by Kiefen on May 13th 2019 at 4:39:25 PM

Fighteer Geronimo! from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Geronimo!
May 13th 2019 at 7:31:25 AM

[up] Oh, so you kept the stylish head ornament too? [lol] I wonder if Blizzard will do something special for people who choose not to remove it. I hope so.

I really don't want to "return to Northrend" or deal with the Lich King again. Been there, done that. I want to move on from old story elements, not wallow in them. Anyway, I thought we killed Yogg-Saron already. I very specifically remember Moonfiring him in the brain until he coughed up a bunch of loot... then going back a bunch more times for transmogs and achievements.

Edited by Fighteer on May 13th 2019 at 10:35:00 AM

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Falrinn Random Internet Person from A location definable in 4 dimensional terms
Random Internet Person
May 13th 2019 at 1:35:23 PM

To follow up a bit on my long, rambling post I do consider Sylvanas to be a possible candidate for the primary villain of a return to Northrend expansion, I can't help but feel that if her story continues beyond BfA it should be in a much more subdued role in the short/medium term. Let her retreat into the shadows for a bit, and come out when the time is right.

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tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas
Professional Forum Ninja
May 14th 2019 at 8:24:58 AM So I'll make a resolution, that I'll never make another one, just enjoy this ride on my trip around the sun, until its done.
Fighteer Geronimo! from the Time Vortex Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Geronimo!
May 14th 2019 at 9:22:09 AM

Yawn. I know some people are obsessed over Classic, but it does nothing for me at all. Nostalgia blinds us to the fact that the game was much shittier back then. You can only "recapture the wonder" for so long before the inherent frustrations of the mechanics start to sink in and you remember that the expansions improved class balance, improved travel, improved questing, made raids much more accessible, made PvP ranks attainable without paying people to farm Honor on your account (or dying from sleep and food deprivation), and a long list of other things.

I predict Classic becoming a ghost town within two years, populated almost exclusively by PvP enthusiasts and twinks, since there won't be enough active players to support raiding.

Also, did they announce pricing for Classic? Do you need to pay a separate subscription fee or does one price cover all?

Edited by Fighteer on May 14th 2019 at 12:27:49 PM

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