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uncertanSearcher It's always Season of the Witch from Germany Since: Oct, 2017
It's always Season of the Witch
#113076: Sep 13th 2025 at 7:34:19 AM

Hard to believe that high ranking Marines did not already know what went down during the Extinction Tournaments, considering their organization is actively helping to organize it. This whole shit crosses the line so hard that there is really no possible justification for working with the Government anymore once you know about it.

Edited by uncertanSearcher on Sep 13th 2025 at 4:36:43 PM

Archsage Professional Simp from My House Since: Apr, 2022 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Professional Simp
#113077: Sep 13th 2025 at 8:31:48 AM

The comments they make about Shakky makes me think that even the low ranking Marines had some clue about what's happening too. Which is strange because usually the marine fodder tends to be portrayed as decent folk.

Best advice I ever got? Keep repeating the joke till everyone is forced to laugh.
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#113078: Sep 13th 2025 at 8:34:44 AM

It seems everything just went mask off with them lately, which seems to affect everything down the lowest levels.

Edited by Blueace on Sep 13th 2025 at 12:39:37 PM

Wake me up at your own risk.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#113079: Sep 13th 2025 at 8:43:15 AM

Remember that this is a flashback. This happened earlier chronologically speaking.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Archsage Professional Simp from My House Since: Apr, 2022 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Professional Simp
#113080: Sep 13th 2025 at 8:52:25 AM

Now that we know one of Dragon's crimes is shooting a CD, I wonder how high his bounty is. He's probably the only person I'd imagine to have one higher than Roger.

Best advice I ever got? Keep repeating the joke till everyone is forced to laugh.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#113081: Sep 13th 2025 at 8:54:34 AM

That's assuming anyone else knew he shot a World Noble.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#113082: Sep 13th 2025 at 9:04:55 AM

They probably would panic if people heard about that. That idea would cause a serious mess they don't want to deal with.

Wake me up at your own risk.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#113083: Sep 13th 2025 at 9:13:13 AM

What's extra sad is that we know that even after this Dragon still clung to hope that the WG and Marines could be reformed peacefully.

But then they committed a second genocide. So Dragon went "fuck this" and formed an army to oppose them.

Disgusted, but not surprised
diddyknux (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#113084: Sep 13th 2025 at 9:39:32 AM

Chapter's not out yet. Be careful what you say.

Edited by diddyknux on Sep 13th 2025 at 11:40:04 AM

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#113085: Sep 13th 2025 at 10:23:19 AM

As a Fire Emblem fan, all this newly vitriolic discourse on Garp is weirdly funny to me because similar characters exist in most of those games, the Token Good Teammate of the villains' upper ranks who refuses to change sides despite obvious evidence of his superiors' atrocity. They're typically called "Camus" characters, after a boss from the first game who is like this and who spawned a Fountain of Expies. Garp is One Piece's Camus.

Typically the intent with these characters is that they're tragic heroes who aren't bad people at all and the fact that you have no choice but to defeat and in most cases outright kill them is meant to demonstrate the unfairness of war and conflict, and for a while that's how they were seen. Buuuuuuut in recent years opinions of them have heavily shifted toward the negative, arguing that loyalty and battlefield honor are not virtues in a vacuum when they're done in service to obvious bad actors. As well, FE games have no shortage of characters who do realize they're on the wrong team and switch sides, many even becoming playable, resulting in the odd situation that these characters choosing the right side is portrayed as virtuous, but the Camus-type character's unwavering loyalty to the wrong side is also portrayed as virtuous.

Garp is undergoing that same perspective shift right now.

dragonfire5000 from Where gods fear to tread Since: Jan, 2001
#113086: Sep 13th 2025 at 10:38:00 AM

but the Camus-type character's unwavering loyalty to the wrong side is also portrayed as virtuous

I wonder if it has something to do with bushidou, given bushidou has tenets such as honor until death and loyalty to one's lord.

Considering how often Garp talks about how the new generation is the hope for the future, I think he's aware that there's not much he can do to change how things work except to instill his beliefs into the newer generation so they can hopefully change things for the better.

It would kind of fit in with how a good number of problems in this setting come from someone from a very old generation who continues to crave more power.

Edited by dragonfire5000 on Sep 13th 2025 at 10:40:30 AM

"I squirm, I struggle, ergo I am. Faced with death, I am finally, truly alive."
diddyknux (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#113087: Sep 13th 2025 at 10:42:12 AM

There was a time where you could make such an argument for Marines like Garp and Koby. Its just that the true extent of how awful the World Government is (and imo, coupled with in real life how abuse of power has become MUCH more surface level in recent years, making it very culturally relevant as well), people don't really want to hear the "Well, they can still do some good, even if those in power are awful" rhetoric anymore.

Kuzann joining the Pirate Crew of a loose cannon who is not above destructive, murdering tactics being at worst a lateral move, is not a good sign.

Freshwater Since: Apr, 2023
#113088: Sep 13th 2025 at 10:43:01 AM

Camus is one of those funny examples of a character who "started" an archetype but actually isn't a good examples because they were made before the tropes were standardized. Because, in FE 1 Camus is seemingly killed for his stubbornness and ultimately his sacrifice doesn't help anyone. Then, in FE 3 Valentia and Echoes, Camus does switch sides from the evil empire to join the heroes.

It's also funny because even FE games like Path of Radiance liked to play with the idea of the Camus-type character. In that game, Bryce repeatedly gets insulted and mocked by his clearly evil boss who makes no pretense that this invasion isn't all for the sake of evil.

Garp is in a weird position because we don't have all the information yet. We don't know why he choose to stay in the Marines and we don't know what his final fate will be. Once those questions are answered I'll probably be able to make up my mind about how I fully feel about his character.

Edited by Freshwater on Sep 13th 2025 at 10:53:36 AM

diddyknux (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#113089: Sep 13th 2025 at 10:53:22 AM

What Oda's really needed to do if he wants to have Marines be more sympathetic is have more Marines willing to go doing the right thing over orders. More moments like Fujitora and his men bowing down to King Riku and Fujitora saving slaves during the Revolutionary's attack at Marijois, and Tashigi ordering her men to assist the Straw Hats and then refusing to arrest them in Alabasta.

The Buster Calls are a major problem. Whether the Marines are fed propaganda or not, the fact that more people don't question it is a problem. I would even acccept lip service, like if Oda were to say that in the rare occasion a Buster Call is initiated, its actually very difficult to find 10 Vice Admirals willing to partake in it. But no... Doesn't seem to be a problem.

The recent chapter showing Dragon questioning the orders he's given... I guess that's supposed to be our window into how low ranking Marines fit into this, are essentially "groomed" into thinking this stuff's okay.

But even with all that in mind... Garp feels like a sticking point. I want to say this is all the real reason Garp left Luffy with Dadan, like he was trying to hide Luffy as a kid until he was ready for the world... But in that case, why try to push him to be a Marine at all? I guess "Make him and Ace Marines first, then worry about changing the world" is hist viewpoint, going by how he cries to Ace at Marineford. But... It just doesn't fully click for me, I guess. Like its been said, there are missing pieces still.

Edited by diddyknux on Sep 13th 2025 at 12:55:34 PM

Ego-Man25 Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#113090: Sep 13th 2025 at 10:56:42 AM

Let's put it this way: Luffy doesn't really try to get any closer to Garp than he has to, generally preferring to keep his distance. This is Luffy we're talking about.

Self-professed Wild Card who thinks cynicism isn't so bad.
Freshwater Since: Apr, 2023
#113091: Sep 13th 2025 at 11:00:20 AM

[up][up] The Buster Call and Human Hunts really are why Dragon defection works so well and why the idea of the "good" Marines doesn't. If a Marine can justify the destruction of an island than they can justify the destruction of any island so nobody is truly safe as long as the organization's doctorine exists.

I kind of wish Tashigi and Smoker got more focus pre and post time skip. It would have been fun seeing them leave the Marine's to go on their own adventure to learn more about the world and the history of the Marines. Maybe, the story could have had them cross paths with the Straw Hats more without worrying about them coming into conflict.

[up] and [up][up] Garp doesn't seem to have planned things out with his child and grandchildren. Considering Dragon's surprise, Garp apparently didn't bother telling Dragon about the possibility of being involved with the human hunts or anything about the WG's cruelty.

Edited by Freshwater on Sep 13th 2025 at 11:03:02 AM

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#113092: Sep 13th 2025 at 11:12:49 AM

I feel like a big part of why these controversies stick to Garp in particular is the fact that he's been repeatedly demonstrated to be strong enough, high-ranked enough, and popular enough among both his comrades and the common people that he probably could defy the cruelest orders and get away relatively unscathed - and yet he chooses not to, the one exception being when his grandsons were directly threatened at Marineford, where it wound up not mattering in the end.

alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#113093: Sep 13th 2025 at 2:51:09 PM

I think there's a certain aspect of the general OP plot that involves "false" rulers which works for the island of the arc plot but feels a lil awkward for the WG itself. Like, it can be just a little awkward with idiot civilians in Dressrossa and Wano, but the whole "OOH YOU HAVE TO KNOW THE FULL STORY OF HOW THE WG CAME TO BE, THE BIIIIIG REVEAL" that feels like it's being build up feels kinda unnecessary when they're well... the World Government.

Like, technically speaking, Imu being the super Satan behind everything isn't exactly necessary. It's fun to be fair, but the Celestial Dragons were already super evil enough. Even if it somehow started out legit at some point (considering the 800 year old bridges still being built were a thing pre time skip, rather unlikely) the whole Void Century feels frankly pointless in the overall "We should probably deal with the WG and the C Ds" way of things. They've been colossal dicks all the way through, with maybe SOME positives from the Navy.

Edited by alekos23 on Sep 13th 2025 at 12:52:10 PM

The-Azure-Star-Of-Orion Long time lurker from a deep dark hole Since: Mar, 2022 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Long time lurker
#113094: Sep 13th 2025 at 3:57:44 PM

[up]but One Piece wants a story that has the Devil is controlling the world and the Hero is here to stop him after so long, not the World Government becoming corrupt over time and we need to reset them.

Edited by The-Azure-Star-Of-Orion on Sep 13th 2025 at 4:00:15 AM

After 10 year plus years I have the confidence to be here. My one and only Fate servent.
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#113095: Sep 13th 2025 at 4:51:16 PM

My thing is, there's only so many ways you can reveal the story of the world Government. They're either going to be like Orochi and they were vile monsters all along, or they're going to have started with good intentions as Joyboy's allies but eventually turned evil. Or some kind of mixture of the two.

It's why the whole void century thing is a gap in the lore that never particularly appealed to me. What kind of World Government reveal could you possibly do that's shocking.

Kaze ni Nare!
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#113096: Sep 13th 2025 at 5:27:07 PM

I think the Void Century story will be much weirder than we suspect. I doubt the ban is just there because WG wants to hide they were the bad guys in a war, because more traditional propaganda would suffice for that. I think something really funky happened there that would upend the very understanding of the world if it came out.

And for what it is... honestly given everything we know so far, it's probably the fact that the world went through multiple apocalyptic events that reshaped it completely and have reset the civilization, and Imu might've been personally involved in that.

AegisP Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man
#113097: Sep 13th 2025 at 5:48:14 PM

[up] I know you didnt intend this interpretation, but I hope it is NOT funny weird, Gold Roger is already drowining in allegations he is a careless clown simp. He doesnt take anything seriously and is a major simp.

As long as this flower is in my heart. My Strength will flow without end.
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#113098: Sep 14th 2025 at 8:11:32 AM

New chapter! This is an extremely dark one, just as a heads-up, with scenes like Sommers kicking a child out of a tree onto a patch of his thorns, and World Nobles shooting a literal infant. Pertinent to the conversation we've been having, though, we get an explanation for why the Marines don't fight back against the World Nobles - turns out that for any Marine that does so, the penalty is not just them but their entire platoon being executed by beheading.

Also, Gunko has a unique title - Devoted Blade of God, which I assume relates to her being Imu's handmaiden/meatpuppet.

Edited by HamburgerTime on Sep 14th 2025 at 8:19:14 AM

dragonfire5000 from Where gods fear to tread Since: Jan, 2001
#113099: Sep 14th 2025 at 8:18:27 AM

I was curious as to how the localization was going to handle the "Knights of God" title written in English, and it looks like they decided to go with "Holy Knights of God."

I have to say, Newgate saying he's rescuing Shakky because she's a friend...but he's not complaining if she falls in love with him is hilarious.

Also, Dragon shooting a World Noble and saving the life of someone who would eventually save his future son after said son ALSO assaults a World Noble is really something.

"I squirm, I struggle, ergo I am. Faced with death, I am finally, truly alive."
Jcppcntn98 (Pilot) Relationship Status: Norwegian Wood
#113100: Sep 14th 2025 at 8:22:23 AM

Dragon really ended up being one of the most pivotal players in the entire incident just by the sheer amount of future consequences that resulted from his actions. And all of that while being a near-powerless young cadet as well.


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