I mean, you don't just pass out when someone grabs your head. Zoro was clearly doing something to Miss Monday. The implication that he was breaking her skull is pretty clear IMO.
Her getting right back up afterwards is no different from Usopp getting back up after we see the x-ray of his skull fracturing against Mr. 4.
I feel like Zoro going "you're right there are things I don't like to cut..." in that exact context and situation was pretty obviously saying, yes, Zoro prefers not to fight women when he can avoid it.
You can probably say that's more about residual issues with Kuina than sexism if you want, but it is there, even if unlikely Sanji he's not going let himself or anyone else be killed over.
Edited by LSBK on Sep 24th 2020 at 3:17:58 AM
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He's also a swordsman and didn't cut her with his swords. Immediately prior, in the same chapter, he takes care to knock out a different woman and child with the flat of his blade, and he apologizes to them, like he knows it's an insult but he can't help going easy on them. It's notable in that they're the only two women he faces in that whole rampage, and he cuts up the male fighters left and right.
It's very clearly meant to be framed like he's going easy on his female opponents, and that's only highlighted clearly in the Monet fight.
Zoro dislikes fighting women, but that doesn't mean he'd hold back against them more than he would against male opponents. Zoro intimidating Monet and letting her live was beat-for-beat what he did with Hyouzou on Fishman Island, except he let Tashigi get the KO instead of doing it himself.
As for the nun, she was dressed as a nun. That's the joke. The nun and the kid are two symbols of innocence, and despite the fact that he knows they're actually assassins, he can't get past the imagery. That same night, he didn't have any issues swinging at Miss Valentine.
Yea, but Zoro not taking Monet seriously led to her almost blowing up the island had it not been for Law's switcheroo, and Ceaser stabbing her heart.
Its very obviously framed that Zoro doesn't take woman opponents as seriously as male ones, otherwise he wouldn't feel the need to hold back to begin with.
Tashigi is a fellow swordsman, and he sure as hell doesn't take her seriously.
Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Sep 24th 2020 at 5:45:47 AM
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.Yea, that doesn't make it better; to Zoro, it didn't matter if Kuina was a woman or not, he considered her a worthy opponent. So to not take Tashigi seriously, he's inadvertently insulting Kuina.
Even if she's weaker than him, you'd think Zoro would extend the same respect towards a fellow practitioner of the sword.
This video kind of touches upon this point.
Like, as much as people complain about Sanji being sexist, he at least doesn't put up airs about it like Zoro does (And no, this doesn't make him better, I'm just illustrating a point) And the fact that Mark is the second Youtuber I know pointed this out makes me think Oda has something in mind.
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.Has Tashigi given any named character a reason to take her seriously as a swordfighter?
Zoro wasn't nearly as ruthless on Whiskey Peak as you guys are making him out to be. I was reading over those chapters again, and he spends a lot of time not cutting people. A rough estimate of his body count is:
- 8-ish bounty hunters, who he tricked into firing on each other
- Another 6-ish, who he tricked into aiming at Igaram, forcing Igaram to take them out
- 7 bounty hunters cut by the first use of Yubarashi
- 4 bounty hunters struck by sections of a barrel that was thrown by Miss Monday, redirected by Zoro
- 1 bounty hunter cut by the first use of Kietsu
- The nun and the child, KO'd by the back of Zoro's swords
- 10-ish bounty hunters flung off a ladder
- 12-ish bounty hunters cut at range by Hawk Wave
- 5 bounty hunters who fell into a trap hole cut into the roof where Zoro was standing
- Miss Monday, whose skull was crushed
- Mr. 9, tricked at first into jumping off a building and later thrown into Igaram's attack
- Vivi, who had Mr. 9 thrown at her
- Igaram, cut at the very end
- Mr. 5 & Miss Valentine, punched out (in tandem with Luffy)
Out of the ~50 bounty hunters he beat on panel, fewer than half of them were slashed.
That's not the point dude; if Zoro wants to be called the greatest swordsman ever, then he should give the same respect that Mihawk gave to him despite the power difference.
If Zoro doesn't Tashigi seriously because she's both a woman and weaker than him, then that's a huge insult to Kuina's memory isn't it.
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.I feel like bringing up how Zoro handled Hyogoro actually detracts from your point, Mile Run.
Why would Oda write two battle scenes the same way, in consecutive arcs, just to get the exact same point across about the character? It's not an either or here, Zoro can both have a disinterest in fighting weak opponents, and have a distaste for fighting women (for whatever reason) specifically, and the two fights are used to illustrate those two separate points.
I understand being annoyed that Oda made that a part of Zoro's character, but, I'm really not convinced that's not how he wanted the whole Monet sequence to be interpreted.
If that's the argument we're going with, have Tashigi or Monet shown anything like the same determination that Zoro could see?
Edited by sgamer82 on Sep 24th 2020 at 4:09:22 AM
My point is that it's part of the same pattern of Oda setting up M/F fights in a way that male hero don't have to physically hurt the woman beyond an isolated punch here or a superficial cut there. There's always an in-universe reason for why they don't have to, and only in Sanji's case has that reason ever been that he refuses to fight a woman.
Zoro refusing to cut Tashigi because she looks like Kuina was meant to be taken at face value, as is post-TS' Zoro's habit of not taking fights against weaker enemies seriously. I'm not against speculative character analysis in general, but in this case I feel like you're deliberately ignoring what's stated on the page in order to push your own readings of the character.
I mean, we all know that Oda treats female characters with kid gloves most of the time, but I think the point being made here is that that usually isn't blatantly addressed in the story like with the Monet incident. That's what's difference.
Yeah, obviously all of One Piece is influenced by Oda's specific brand of sexism, but that's different from whether or not he's specifically incorporating it into who the characters are, which seems to be the case with Zoro.
Maybe it wasn't always the case, but, honestly, doesn't mean much at this point. Writers can change how they perceive or want their characters to be perceived, and readers and writers can have very different interpretations on who the characters are and how they've progressed.
I definitely agree with most of that video. Zoro and Sanji have similar issues with women, but Zoro's problem is that it's a weakness that he's in denial over, and it's something that he's going to need to grow past if he wants to be the Greatest Swordman.
On the note of women who don't get hit, I'M DONE. I FINISHED MY FIGHTING GAME MOVESET FOR ROBIN. I won. I beat her. I won the battle that so many game developers couldn't, every single move in this moveset is STRAIGHT from the manga, it's something she did, and I didn't reuse a single move (weirdly enough, she had EXACTLY enough moves for a fighting game moveset, I feel like a safe-cracker breaking into the toughest safe in the world containing a legendary treasure). It's a weird-ass moveset, but it's also cool as fuck to actually read through.
Most of her attacks are either command grabs or hit-grabs, many still with hurtboxes. For moves that grow limbs out of the opponents body, the area of effect is represented with a cloud of pink flower petals. Once the limbs have grown on the opponent's body, they still need to hit the opponent in order to trigger the attack animation, whether it be a hit-grab or a command-grab.
4S (Reflect): Viente Fleur: Calendula. 20 arms sprout out of her elbows, 10 on each arm, which spin around like a shield.
5L/5LL/5LLL: Auto-combo.
- 5L: Uno Fleur: Strangle. 1 arm sprouts out of the opponent's shoulderblade and chokes the opponent by wrapping their elbow around their throat.
- 5LL: Tres Fleur: Twist. 3 arms sprout on the opponent's body and twist them around.
- 5LLL: Ocho Fleur: Flip. 8 arms sprout out of the opponent's body and flip them backward to land on their head. If the opponent flipping hits one of their teammates, it does bonus damage. Hit-grab.
2L: Dos Fleur: Grab. 2 arms sprout out of the opponent's thighs and crush their genitals in her grasp. Low hit-grab.
5M: Seis Fleur: Slap. 6 arms sprout out across the opponent's chest and slap the opponent in the face repeatedly.
2M: Seis Fleur: Clutch. 6 arms sprout out of the opponent's body and ground and pull to break their back. Low hit-grab.
6M: Ochenta Fleur: Cuatro Mano: Shock. 80 arms sprout out of the opponent's shoulders and form 4 large arms made of 20 each that smash them on the head. High.
5H: Ochenta Fleur: Cuatro Mano: Clutch. 80 arms sprout out of the opponent's body and form 4 large arms made of 20 each and break their back. Hit-grab.
2H: Cien Fleur: Cinco Mano: Spank. 100 arms sprout out of the ground and form 5 large arms made of 20 each, and they all do a palm-thrust diagonally into the air. If the opponent's on the ground, the large arms grow out of their body and hit them in the face instead, the number of large arms growing out of them increases based on how close the opponent is to Robin.
6H: Cien Fleur: Dos Mano: Hold. 100 arms sprout out of the ground and form 2 huge arms made of 50 each that grab the opponent, pinning them down. Command Grab, leads into combo.
5S: Once Fleur: Slam. 11 arms sprout out of the opponent's limbs to push against their body and throw them back. Does a wall-bounce if they're far enough back.
2S: Cuarenta Fleur: Cuatro Mano: Spank. 40 arms sprout out of her body and form 4 big arms made of 10 each that do palm-strikes in four directions. Invincible DP. One of her assist moves, the 4 big arms sprout out of the point fighter.
6S: Dieciseis Fleur. 16 arms sprout out of the far wall and push the opponent towards Robin.
j.5L: Dos Fleur: Clutch. 2 arms sprout out of the opponent's shoulder-blades, grabs their chin, and pulls back to break their neck. Hit-grab.
j.5M: Quince Fleur: Slalom Vine. 15 arms sprout from her hand in a chain that she lashes out, wraps around the opponent, and spins them in the air. Hit-grab.
j.5H: Ochenta Fleur: Cuatro Mano: Shock. 80 arms sprout out of the opponent's shoulders and form 4 large arms made of 20 each that smash them on the head, launching them down.
j.2H: Cuarenta Fleur: Dos Mano: Clutch. 40 arms sprout out of the opponent's body and form 2 large arms made of 20 each behind the opponent and they pull the opponent's upper body down, breaking their back. Hit-grab.
j.5S: Cinco Fleur. 5 arms sprout from the top of the screen as a chain she can swing on.
j.2S: Treinta Fleur: Hang. 30 arms hang from the ceiling making up 5 chains made of 6 each, they grab onto the opponent and swing them into the far wall. Hit-grab.
236L/M/H: Clutch. She sprouts limbs out of her body and pulls their body to break their spine. Command grab.
- L: Ocho Fleur. 8 arms sprout out of the opponent's body and break their back.
- M: Doce Fleur. 12 arms sprout out of the opponent's body and break their back.
- H: Treinta Fleur. 30 arms sprout out of the opponent's body and the ground and break their back super hard.
j.236L/M/H: Hold. Arms sprout out of the opponent's body and grab them to hold them in place, making them fall to the ground. Aerial command grab.
- L: Tres Fleur. 3 arms sprout on the opponent, one to restrain each arm and one to hold their weapon.
- M: Diez Fleur: 10 arms sprout out of the opponent's body to restrain them.
- H: Cuarenta Fleur: Cuatro Mano. 40 arms sprout out of the opponent's back and form 4 big arms made of 10 each that hold them in place.
236S: Cien Fleur: Big Tree. 100 arms sprout out of the ground and form a giant mass that smashes the opponent.
j.236S: Cien Fleur: Spider Net. 100 arms sprout out of the walls and form a net that catches an opponent.
214L/M/H: Twist: She sprouts arms out of the opponent's body and twist their spine around. Command grab.
- L: Seis Fleur. 6 arms sprout out of the opponent's body and twist them around.
- M: Veinte Fleur. 20 arms sprout out of the opponent's body and twists them around.
- H: Cien Fleur: Bellflower. 100 arms sprout out of the opponent's body and the ground and completely annihilate their spine by twisting their upper body around 3 times.
214S: Cuerpo Fleur. Robin sprouts a clone of herself in front of her. If the clone is hit by a move, it dissipates, leaving the opponent stunned temporarily and open to attack.
j.214S: Cien Fleur: Wing. 100 arms sprout out of her back and form wings made of 50 each, and Robin flaps them to fly. While these wings are out, Robin has infinite double-jumps and falls much slower. This ability only lasts around 5 seconds, and can only be used once every time Robin is mid-air. Input j.214S again to turn off Wing early and have her fall normally.
22L/M/H: Delphinium/Campo De Flores. Arms sprout out of the ground fullscreen.
- L: Cien Fleur: Delphinium. 100 arms sprout out of the ground in two rows and roll the opponent away at high speeds. Low hit-grab.
- M: Mil Fleur: Campo De Flores. 1,000 arms sprout out of the ground in a field that grab the opponent. Command grab. Holds the opponent in place, leaving them open for follow-ups. Counts as a different move than 22L and 22H.
- H: Mil Fleur: Delphinium. 1,000 arms form into two rows of large arms and roll the opponent far away at high speeds into the far wall. Full-screen low hit-grab.
22S: Mil Fleur: Butterfly Orchid. 1,000 hands sprout and form 500 hand-butterflies made of 2 each that create wind to deflect projectiles. Lasts for 5 seconds.
236L+M Level 1: Cuerpo Fleur: Doble Clutch. She creates two clones of herself on either side of the opponent. They grab the opponent's head and legs and break their neck and lower back in a U-shape. Command Grab.
236H+S Level 1: Mil Fleur: Flower Umbrella. 1,000 arms form into 2 big hands and a ton of small hands that hold up a gigantic bouquet of sunflowers as an umbrella. Serves as a platform that blocks the opponent's movement and attacks above Robin. Has 3,000 HP.
214L+M Level 3: Mil Fleur: Gigantesco Mano: Stomp. 1,000 legs sprout out of the ground behind her and form 2 gigantic legs made of 500 each that stomp repeatedly in front of her.
214H+S Level 3: Mil Fleur: Gigantesco Mano: Spank. 1,000 arms sprout out of the ground and form 2 gigantic arms made of 500 each that palm-strike the opponent in front of her.
Sanji may have had more moves to incorporate, but I think Robin's moveset was more difficult. At least Sanji is mostly a straight-forward combo-heavy brawler, Robin is a weird Squishy Wizard long-range grappler.
Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Sep 24th 2020 at 5:43:27 AM

I think that, after a manga gets an anime, or at least a guarantee that they won't get cancelled, the author just automatically starts doing that because by that point weekly sale aren't as important.