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Clarification needed.: Five Rounds Rapid

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Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#1: Oct 19th 2010 at 9:13:08 AM

So, somebody brought Five Rounds Rapid up in Image Pickin' because somebody stuck a picture of the book on the page. I'm going to be checking the wicks in a bit, but I would like some clarification on the time line, since standard procedure is to rename a trope if it's named after a work.

From what I can tell, the line was used in Doctor Who first. Then a book by the same name came out that's set in the Doctor Who universe. Since Amazon has it listed as coming out in the early nineties, I'm assuming the book predates the wiki.

Barrier-Busting Blow: Wrong It's in the description, used instead of Immune to Bullets. I'll correct in a bit.

Ciaphas Cain: aversion correct, reference to calling in the appropriate level of firepower. I haven't read Traitors Hand yet so I'm unclear on the exact situation but it looks correct.

D-War: wrong, mentions use of helicopters and tanks, being used as Immune to Bullets.

Hollywood Tactics: correct, direct reference.

Insane Cafe Series: correct.

Independence Day: incorrect, considering the movie features almost nothing but fighter jet combat, it's not applicable.

Monsters Vs Aliens: correct.

Onimusha: unclear, leaning toward incorrect.

Posleen War Series: example poorly written, but IIRC when it shows up, it gets people killed. None of the critters are Immune to Bullets though, which is what the trope is most commonly confused for.

Shooting Superman: used as reference in description. correct.

Technical Pacifist: referencing Doctor Who episode. However, the example appears to be wrong.

Warhammer40000: correct.

5/12 wrong, mostly confusing this with Immune to Bullets.

edited 19th Oct '10 10:12:43 AM by Deboss

Fight smart, not fair.
Shale Since: Jan, 2001
#2: Oct 19th 2010 at 9:20:35 AM

The book was not set in the Doctor Who universe. It's the autobiography of the actor who delivered the line.

Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
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#3: Oct 19th 2010 at 9:24:39 AM

Well the Trope needs a rename imo since its about "how people fire handguns at a monster while not calling for heavy weapons" not the autobio that has some connection to the trope?

edited 19th Oct '10 9:25:55 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
Shale Since: Jan, 2001
#4: Oct 19th 2010 at 9:25:49 AM

But we're never going to have a page on the autobio, because it's not a work of fiction. If Nicholas Courtney was a major enough actor to get a page about his life, it would be titled Nicholas Courtney. So there's no conflict and no need for a rename.

edited 19th Oct '10 9:26:01 AM by Shale

Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
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#5: Oct 19th 2010 at 9:27:27 AM

No but does the book have any kind of connection to the trope? I mean its very confusing (the image only makes it worse.)

Handgun Vs Monster or something?

edited 19th Oct '10 9:27:39 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#6: Oct 19th 2010 at 9:36:07 AM

It's not about using hand guns on monsters. It's about using small arms on monsters, monster is Immune to Bullets and jumping straight to Nuke 'Em from orbit.

Fight smart, not fair.
Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
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#7: Oct 19th 2010 at 9:44:27 AM

Yeah didn't think that one through... Arms Esclation Leap?

The Trope Name, Image, Description, Examples all need work... (most are subverted and averted or worse.)

edited 19th Oct '10 9:55:20 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#8: Oct 19th 2010 at 9:59:36 AM

The main instance of misuse seems to be that people are siting it as showing Immune to Bullets by having people shoot them continuously or something. I think Ordinance Escalationg or something similar would be a more descriptive name.

Fight smart, not fair.
Shale Since: Jan, 2001
#9: Oct 19th 2010 at 10:03:12 AM

Also, the jump isn't to "Nuke 'Em from orbit," it's to Applied Phlebotinum. And handguns or other small arms are a crucial part of the equation. The flowchart goes:

Monster —-> Shoot it with guns —-> Guns don't work! —-> Hey, what do these Green Rocks do? —-> Monster melts.

There may be the threat of the military using nukes if the phlebotinum doesn't work in time.

edited 19th Oct '10 10:03:36 AM by Shale

Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#10: Oct 19th 2010 at 10:09:38 AM

Unfortunately, said monster is Immune To Bullets and the heroes must resort to an Applied Phlebotinum approach before the army gets a chance to Nuke Em.

An important part of this trope is that, in almost all cases, the military personnel will only ever use small arms fire. Grenades, machine guns, anti-tank rockets, tanks, air support, and artillery — especially artillery — are hardly ever involved.

Hm, you're right. Let me go look at the examples again.

Okay, so the W H40k example is wrong, I'll go change it.

edited 19th Oct '10 10:12:08 AM by Deboss

Fight smart, not fair.
Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#11: Oct 19th 2010 at 10:17:34 AM

[X] Rounds Rapid is standard terminology for "Don't just shoot it once, you idiot! Keep shooting at it." That said, it's still not a very good name for plinking away at a monster with a handgun, either.

Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
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#12: Oct 19th 2010 at 10:30:55 AM

^ yeah and it works badly for the trope (after major explaining) which is "get a different weapon" or something.

edited 19th Oct '10 10:32:21 AM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#13: Oct 19th 2010 at 10:36:19 AM

Needs More Dakka

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
RegShoe Awfully negative from over there somewhere. Since: Jan, 2015
Awfully negative
#14: Oct 19th 2010 at 1:05:29 PM

Get A Bigger Gun.

In the beginning there was nothing, and it exploded. Terry Pratchett 35 tropes so far.
Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
Daremo Misanthrope Supreme from Parts Unknown Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: If it's you, it's okay
#17: Oct 19th 2010 at 7:53:47 PM

Could have sworn we had Gonna Need Bigger Guns at some point.

Creed of the Happy Pessimist:Always expect the worst. Then, when it happens, it was only what you expected. All else is a happy surprise.
Nohbody "In distress", my ass. from Somewhere in Dixie Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
Wulfram Since: Sep, 2009
#19: Oct 20th 2010 at 4:01:23 AM

To me the trope seems to be mostly about the army using small arms on monsters. The escalation stuff is a likely consequence, but it's not the core of the trope.

Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#20: Oct 20th 2010 at 12:43:49 PM

The military shooting monsters isn't a trope. If you put someone with a gun near a monster trying to eat them, chances are they're going to shoot it. This is a natural response to monsters trying to eat you. The military only using small arms, rather than rolling up some tanks (where applicable), calling in gunships, or bringing in the B-52's and MOABs is also a trope (trope 1) regardless of Immune to Bullets status. The previous trope plus jumping from "Oh God, it's Immune to Bullets!" to "Nuke 'Em" is another trope (trope 2). Going from "Oh God, it's Immune to Bullets!" to "find the Depleted Phlebotinum Shells!" is another trope (trope 3).

Five Rounds Rapid is currently trying to pass itself off as a combination of tropes 2&3 when it gets misused as trope 1 is the primary problem.

edited 20th Oct '10 12:44:31 PM by Deboss

Fight smart, not fair.
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#21: Oct 20th 2010 at 1:19:52 PM

Somehow this trope got the Taco Bell dog's godzilla comercials stuck in my head...

The dog trying to trap the lizzard with a box and bait then seeing him he turns to the camera saying "I think I need a bigger box."

Anyway[up] I agree with that should we split or completly rework the the trope? (In addition to a rename.)

edited 20th Oct '10 1:43:47 PM by Raso

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
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#22: Nov 24th 2010 at 6:26:39 PM

Going to bump this since I never got a responce and this trope needs major work.

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!
Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#23: Nov 24th 2010 at 6:32:47 PM

This one is kind of looking like it might be a good candidate for the next Extreme Trope Makeover.

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NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#25: Nov 30th 2010 at 7:45:24 AM

Really, just looks like it needs a rename to me. The trope is "the monster is demonstrated to be Immune to Bullets; instead of trying heavier weapons, the characters decide that it must be immune to all conventional weaponry, and proceed directly to Applied Phlebotinum solutions". (Compare Nuke 'Em, where they proceed directly from small arms to nuclear weapons without any intermediate levels of boom.)

The trope is good, its just that it has a really Non-Indicative Name. Rename to something like No Mundane Solution (though that sounds unnecessarily broad) or Send In The Phlebotinum (which still isn't super great, but it's better than Five Rounds Rapid).

edited 30th Nov '10 7:45:59 AM by NativeJovian

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

Total posts: 26
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