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How do I know it's second best?: Infinity Minus One Sword

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Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#1: Oct 18th 2010 at 10:34:49 PM

This is a trope defined by the weapon being just slightly second-best. As such, a picture of a single weapon doesn't demonstrate the trope.

Perhaps we could do a side-by-side image? one of the ∞-1 Sword next to the ∞+1 Sword, or perhaps two screenshots of a battle, to show the damage output of the respective weapons?

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Edmania o hai from under a pile of erasers Since: Apr, 2010
o hai
#2: Oct 18th 2010 at 10:37:34 PM

I don't think we can get a fully demonstrative picture of this without the use of text to tell you stats and such.

If people learned from their mistakes, there wouldn't be this thing called bad habits.
DRCEQ Since: Oct, 2009
#3: Oct 18th 2010 at 10:39:09 PM

Agreed. A picture of a sword from Final Fantasy VII adds absolutely nothing to the trope. Maybe if the caption mentioned the name of the sword, then at least people could go look up it's stats in an FAQ or something and see for themselves why.

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#4: Oct 18th 2010 at 10:41:01 PM

^^ What about an RPG battle? One that does the classic "falling numbers" thing to show you damage? One screenshot with the ∞+1 sword being used, show it dealing the damage cap. Another screenshot with the ∞-1 sword being used, show it dealing high damage, but not as much as the ∞+1 sword.

Wouldn't need a wall of text, and you could even crop the pictures to just show the wielder, the monster, and the damage report.

edited 18th Oct '10 10:41:20 PM by Enlong

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Rhatahema Since: Sep, 2010
#5: Oct 18th 2010 at 11:07:46 PM

This one is going to be very difficult to depict. Infinity -1 Sword isn't even necessarily the "second best" weapon in terms of damage. The definition is unclear, in part due to a contradiction in whether or not this is better than the Sword of Plot Advancement, but basically it's the sword that sees the most use in the game because it's practical (and often relatively easy to acquire.)

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#6: Oct 18th 2010 at 11:16:47 PM

I thought it was pretty clear: it's not quite the Infinity +1 Sword, but it's powerful enough to be the most widely used weapon, because it's so hard to get the Infinity +1 Sword, or because you have it for more of the game, or because you can make copies, etc.

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Edmania o hai from under a pile of erasers Since: Apr, 2010
o hai
#7: Oct 18th 2010 at 11:27:15 PM

What about an RPG battle?

This work?

To get Sun Blade, open some chest in a storyline dungeon. To get Ragnarok, defeat the hardest damn boss in the game.

If people learned from their mistakes, there wouldn't be this thing called bad habits.
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#8: Oct 18th 2010 at 11:32:44 PM

That is definitely what I'm going for. I would almost suggest using Excalibur, but since that was the Infinity Plus One sword in the first game...

Though, I'm wondering a bit about the respective pictures.

Any chance we could have the two pictures be of an attack on the same monster? The hydra has higher defenses than the goblin, which makes the Sun Blade look worse than it is compared to the Ragnarok.

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Edmania o hai from under a pile of erasers Since: Apr, 2010
o hai
#9: Oct 18th 2010 at 11:37:10 PM

Ragnarok is stronger than Excalibur, and Hydra's defense is barely higher than the Black Goblin's.

If people learned from their mistakes, there wouldn't be this thing called bad habits.
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#10: Oct 18th 2010 at 11:43:15 PM

I meant use Excalibur in place of Sun Blade, actually.

and thinking about the picture again, I'd give my vote to it. Sure the Ragnarok is dealing seven times the damage and that's why I was afraid the comparison was too great, but that is why it's the best sword in the game. Meanwhile, you see the Sun Blade dealing respectable damage.

I'd want to use the Ragnarok more, but not if I have to jump through the ridiculous hoop described.

edited 18th Oct '10 11:43:56 PM by Enlong

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Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#11: Oct 18th 2010 at 11:46:00 PM

Frankly, in that picture, the sword is covering up the first "2" of 22. It looks like Ragnarok is dealing 2, not 22.

Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#12: Oct 18th 2010 at 11:48:05 PM

The actual damage number is on the left, Mad. Though the fact that you didn't immediately notice that might be a mark against the picture.

Maybe we should highlight the important numbers a bit? A red ring around them, perhaps?

What's precedent ever done for us?
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#13: Oct 18th 2010 at 11:48:46 PM

^^ the 22 is the number of times it hit the enemy. The white number on the enemy is the damage report.

Hmm.. speaking of the number of hits, isn't that also inflating the damage for the Ragnarok?

edited 18th Oct '10 11:50:04 PM by Enlong

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Edmania o hai from under a pile of erasers Since: Apr, 2010
o hai
#14: Oct 18th 2010 at 11:49:38 PM

I could make it show 22 instead of 2, but that would cover up the sword.

If people learned from their mistakes, there wouldn't be this thing called bad habits.
Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#15: Oct 18th 2010 at 11:50:59 PM

The 22 isn't really important. Little red rings drawn around the damage reports on the left might help, though, since they show the clearest and most obvious difference.

What's precedent ever done for us?
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#16: Oct 18th 2010 at 11:51:03 PM

Hmmm... hey, just out of curiosity, Edmania, where'd you get the picture? Screenshot off of Youtube or something?

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Edmania o hai from under a pile of erasers Since: Apr, 2010
o hai
#17: Oct 18th 2010 at 11:51:46 PM

I have the game on my computer.

If people learned from their mistakes, there wouldn't be this thing called bad habits.
HappyMaskMan Rock Solid! Since: Aug, 2009
Rock Solid!
#18: Oct 18th 2010 at 11:53:40 PM

I don't really think this is a great idea. The caption's pulling most of the weight, and the only thing in the image of real significance is the numbers.

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#19: Oct 18th 2010 at 11:56:06 PM

^The respective ornateness of the swords is of some importance too, though.

^^ In that case, could you go for identical conditions in the two pictures? You know, try for the same enemy to make the differences more obvious?

Becuase, as it is now, someone may think that the Hydra is simply tougher than the Black Goblin, and that's why the damage is so much greater.

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Glidergun life is a game Since: Jan, 2001
life is a game
#20: Oct 19th 2010 at 12:03:38 AM

This is a really hard trope to demonstrate in an image.

The absolute best-case image I can think of is that there's a room with two swords in it, one incredibly fancy-looking but behind a huge Death Course, and another much less fancy sword which is right out in the open.

I don't know where you would find such an image.

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Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#21: Oct 19th 2010 at 12:15:43 AM

The numbers on the critters I assumed were their hitpoints, not the damage.

You've got to keep in mind the picture has to work for folks who don't know the game.

Edmania o hai from under a pile of erasers Since: Apr, 2010
o hai
#22: Oct 19th 2010 at 1:11:31 AM

room with two swords in it, one incredibly fancy-looking but behind a huge Death Course, and another much less fancy sword which is right out in the open.

Warning : Messy image.

Did we mention that the first sword isn't always there, and people can easily steal it from you once the battle is over?  *

edited 19th Oct '10 1:40:17 AM by Edmania

If people learned from their mistakes, there wouldn't be this thing called bad habits.
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#23: Oct 19th 2010 at 1:14:02 AM

A lot of what's there is near-unreadable, and I initially thought the top sword was the harder one to get as a result ( a cluster of enemies guarding it )

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Edmania o hai from under a pile of erasers Since: Apr, 2010
o hai
#24: Oct 19th 2010 at 1:19:23 AM

The top sword is harder to get (it's supposed to be the Infinity +1 Sword) and the unreadable-ness is somewhat helped by how the actual image is larger on the actual page, though I did say this was messy for a reason.

If people learned from their mistakes, there wouldn't be this thing called bad habits.
Earnest (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#25: Oct 19th 2010 at 1:04:56 PM

How about the second image from this page, showing the Kingdom Key, Oathkeeper, Oblivion (these last two being penultimate weapons) and Ultima Weapon from Kingdom Hearts?

If the quality is an issue, I can probably make a nice one from the bigger images below.


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