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MisterTambourineMan Unbeugsame Klinge from Under a tree Since: Jun, 2017 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
Unbeugsame Klinge
#60626: Jan 14th 2021 at 5:45:48 PM

[up] How so? I'm not trying to be argumentative; I haven't played SMTVIA.

Nach jeder Ebbe kommt die Flut.
Yumil Mad Archivist Since: Mar, 2016
Mad Archivist
#60627: Jan 14th 2021 at 5:57:14 PM

TL;DR: the final battle of SMTIVA is against the Capital G god. That thing is too big, too powerful, too omnipotent for mere mortals to take down. But like every other god and monsters in the IVA verse, he too is merely a product of human observation. Humans thought of an omnipotent god judging their life, and that being came into existence.

But IVA also says that over time, with enough push in one direction, you can change the collective unconscious's perception of something. and when it does, because of how observation works, this change in perception is repercuted on the being that was imagined. For example, how Baal went from being a benevolent sumerian (I think ?) god figure to one of the forms of the demon beelzebub in christianity.

So the solution to take down YHVH isn't to beat it in a straight fistfight. It's to observe him and conceptualize him as something that ISN't omnipotent and invincible. in the words of Dagda (himself voiced by the same guy who voices joker, for added irony) "By denying YHVH as the one true god, you dethrone him. You bring him to the level of a mere demon. This is how you'll drag him down from that throne."

After enough party members form an udnerstanding of YHVH by throwing his shortcomings back to him, YHVH loses the whole floating head aspect it's know for and is reduced to some uber-generic JRPG final boss design that incorporates the various plagues fo the old testament, and THAT form can be pummeled away until it dies.

Aside from the fact it's a (probably accidental) good summation of what SMT itself did to the christian god, the idea of dragging down god from it's throne by literally rejecting the reality in which it IS the omnipotent creator, is an idea that goes wonderfully hand-in-hand with p5's concept of cognition and the only reason Satanael shooting yaldabaoth in the face is an equally good conclusion is STYLE POINTS.

Even the name of theme of the second phase of the battle says it all : To Become God's Enemy. It carries this notion of reducing god, or ascending to a point you geniunely represent a threat to such a powerful being, and that doing so is in and of itself the key to victory.

Edited by Yumil on Jan 14th 2021 at 3:09:25 PM

"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."
OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#60628: Jan 14th 2021 at 6:03:24 PM

YHVH's fear of Observation is also why he lived outaide the Universe, to control mankind from the shadows in an eternal proxy war between Angels and Demons.

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
darkabomination Since: Mar, 2012
#60629: Jan 14th 2021 at 6:51:44 PM

That is just one iteration though. Something like Nocturne for instance argues for more extreme solutions to the Yhvh problem. I really wanna see something like Reasons make a return in SMT or put into a Persona context. The idea of embodying contradictory ideas that can change the world and attract followers based on your ideal is interesting.

asterism from the place I'm at Since: Apr, 2011 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#60630: Jan 14th 2021 at 7:15:33 PM

Persona 4's Shadows are, on the whole, a bad example of Jungian stuff is because they're also a manifestation of what other people think it should look like.

The problem is, the game does not explain this until the very end.

Bewitching Eyes
deludedmusings Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#60631: Jan 14th 2021 at 7:18:15 PM

Well, it doesn't explain it, in terms of a direct statement; but it's one of the things you the player are meant to understand so you can make the correct decision in terms of who is guilty and what they are guilty of.

EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#60632: Jan 14th 2021 at 7:46:28 PM

i just finished the sun social link

and

well, one it's the best social link in the whole series, and two it connects SO heavily to the themes of the game and (from what i'm aware) the ending of the game itself (so i happened to pick a REALLY good time to finish the social link)

and three, it made me cry

....

persona 3 is a really, really good game

Edited by EpicBleye on Jan 14th 2021 at 10:48:35 AM

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#60633: Jan 14th 2021 at 9:40:18 PM

Sun Social link.

Which one was that again?

One Strip! One Strip!
Nouct over the front from an east coast Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies
over the front
#60634: Jan 14th 2021 at 9:55:46 PM

Akinari who's dying from anime disease and writing the picture book.

@Bleye, I think the fun part of the Ryoji twist is that the timing is well-paced enough to make Pharos leaving fade into the background as an event with everything else going on so it doesn't quite seem that important but then it hits.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#60635: Jan 14th 2021 at 10:04:04 PM

[up]

Oh right. That poor bastard....I'm talking about the Hippo.

I mean, it just dies out of nowhere. That's some depressing shit. Don't give me that its dead body helped people thing. He lost his friend and cried himself to death.

I get it Akinari. You're dying, but don't go making hippos commit suicide man. They ain't done nothing to nobody.

One Strip! One Strip!
I-M-THE-Jetyl-1 the Original Jetyl Since: Oct, 2019
the Original Jetyl
#60636: Jan 14th 2021 at 10:47:47 PM

A bit late, but i think another reason to note why P4 gets more focus on criticism, is Persona 4 tries to focus on topics it just doesn't nail the landing discussing them. namely LGBT issues, but in general, a lot of Persona 4's themes of facing truth falls flatter than intended what with basically all the character's truth's lining up with societies expectations, when widely held society believes being counter to truth (read: reality) would actually be an extremely poignant message. (not to mention relevant still today)

Inversely, P3's theme of death is one of the most apolitical themes you can find. Memento Mori, remember you will die. really hard to mess that up thematically, and just as hard to criticize, so more P3's criticism are mechanical. and P5.... i haven't really played, so i can't really say on it in detail, but people seem to criticize its plot a fair amount too, so shrugs

Edited by I-M-THE-Jetyl-1 on Jan 14th 2021 at 10:52:04 AM

I forgot my password, and I want my old Forum handle back!!!
EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#60637: Jan 15th 2021 at 1:12:27 AM

so, i happened to notice a new option popped up under Elizabeth's talk options after i completed our last date and...

> Ask Elizabeth out

"......"

"I... can't do that."

"...As I've told you."

"I don't enjoy refusing your offers, so..."

"Please..."

sad this is so sad ;~; elizabeth is officially best girl of P3, no questions asked

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
asterism from the place I'm at Since: Apr, 2011 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#60638: Jan 15th 2021 at 1:39:00 AM

It's a crocodile, not a hippo but I feel you

Bewitching Eyes
EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#60639: Jan 15th 2021 at 2:09:52 AM

i really like it. it's sad but it's symbolic of what Akinari was going through and how he coped

and, while i obviously haven't finished 3 yet, i'm like 90% sure that it's foreshadowing to/symbolic of the main character's sacrifice at the end of the game (which, yknow, was impossible not to be spoiled on).

also, on an unrelated note, i'm pretty sure that Ryoji is an homage to NGE's Kaworu. at the very least they share a striking amount of similarities when it comes to their role in the story and what they are.

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
Nouct over the front from an east coast Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies
over the front
#60640: Jan 15th 2021 at 2:16:24 AM

As they're both voiced by Akira Ishida in Japanese, it's basically consensus that the allusion was intentional.

asterism from the place I'm at Since: Apr, 2011 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#60641: Jan 15th 2021 at 2:16:51 AM

FWIW if you play the female MC in Portable you can date Ryoji and he just straight up says 'if you were a dude I'd still be into you'

Bewitching Eyes
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#60642: Jan 15th 2021 at 3:06:27 AM

[up][up] That's Akira Ishida stereotype... Athrun Zala, Fate Averruncus, Kuja and so many others.

OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#60643: Jan 15th 2021 at 3:45:04 AM

Kuja was just a Narcissist with a God Complex. Not a Kaworu expy. He fell more into the Griffith side of white haired pretty boy who is supernatural.

Granted they all stem from the OG the living embodiment of hot disasters Ryo Asuka aka Satan.

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
MisterTambourineMan Unbeugsame Klinge from Under a tree Since: Jun, 2017 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
Unbeugsame Klinge
#60644: Jan 15th 2021 at 4:16:42 AM

RE: NGE I would be surprised. Atlus also made Devil Survivor 2, a game with even stronger parallels to NGE, complete with an even more Kaworu-like character.

Nach jeder Ebbe kommt die Flut.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#60645: Jan 15th 2021 at 10:10:44 AM

English trailer for Strikers.

Wait there's no All-Out Attack in this trailer!

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#60646: Jan 15th 2021 at 5:27:20 PM

Why is this trailer age-restricted.

The legend has returned.
EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#60648: Jan 17th 2021 at 12:56:53 AM

oooh and finally got through the new year

i'm... going to miss Ryoji.

i actually checked out the ending where you kill Ryoji first... it's honestly sad seeing everyone go back to who they were at the start of the game.

BUT of course, i chose to let Ryoji live and summon nyx. i only got one more month, huh? guess i'm about to spend every day of it with Aigis so i can max out her social link [lol]

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
asterism from the place I'm at Since: Apr, 2011 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#60649: Jan 18th 2021 at 11:43:52 AM

I wonder what the Velvet room assistant in 6 will be called. We're running out of female characters from Frankenstein.

Bewitching Eyes
Risdio51 The Unknown Pleasure they were talking about from that exit they call Paradise Since: Jun, 2019 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
The Unknown Pleasure they were talking about
#60650: Jan 18th 2021 at 1:29:49 PM

Rogi. Reverse Igor.

I dunno man, I don't have any ideas either.

I can't say goodbye to yesterday…

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