TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Persona series

Go To

OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#60426: Dec 28th 2020 at 4:56:41 PM

And of the major characters to specific routes, only the two female ones are romanceable as female, despite all the UST Dimitri has with nearly all his close male friends in his Supports.

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
PhoenixAct Since: Feb, 2011
#60427: Dec 28th 2020 at 5:03:40 PM

I'm not sure what the flaws with Fire Emblem's relationships system has with my suggestion?

I was talking about having a female social link you can't date because she identifies as a lesbian, and still identifies as a lesbian by the end of the link, no matter what options you pick. I'm sure it would ruffle some feathers, but I'm not sure how you linked it to bait-and-switch lesbians.

Having a character consistently identify as a lesbian for the entirety of the story is basically the opposite of bait-and-switch lesbians, as far as I'm aware.

Although, I will say that the expectation that you should be able to date every female SL is part of the reason I believe you shouldn't be able to.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#60428: Dec 28th 2020 at 5:15:48 PM

I didn't say it was a bait and switch, just that it could be and I was giving an example. By all means, you can easily have a Lesbian female be a Link and not be able to date them at all.

But then that's opening a new can of worms, particularly for the people who want more same sex options in Persona to begin with. So then a situation like that would probably have people asking for a female player option so that they COULD date a lesbian.

You see what I mean by how this is a very slippery slope that can go out of control?

And true, that expectation is a problem...that the series itself created. They established from the getgo that you can date ANY female, no exceptions. At the time, nobody batted an eye since obviously it wasn't problematic back then. But we're in modern times now, so now the series is kind of at a crossroads; it needs to either stick to its guns, or get with the times and add more options. Either way, it's bound to cause a stir since this is generally a controversial topic.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#60429: Dec 28th 2020 at 5:18:58 PM

i really, REALLY think you're blowing this out of proportion

like

So then a situation like that would probably have people asking for a female player option so that they COULD date a lesbian.

yeah?? good?? how on earth is this a slippery slope??? we SHOULD have a playable female option who can be a lesbian

They established from the getgo that you can date ANY female, no exceptions.

And this isn't even true.

You can't date:

  1. Mitsuko (the old woman)
  2. "Maya"
  3. Maiko
  4. Any of the girls from FEMC's end sans maybe Aigis
  5. Margaret (albeit she gives you a kiss and that's it)
  6. The Fox
  7. Hisano
  8. Eri
  9. Sayako
  10. The Twins (who at best have a childish crush on you)
  11. Sae

Edited by EpicBleye on Dec 28th 2020 at 8:25:09 AM

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#60430: Dec 28th 2020 at 5:20:32 PM

I'm merely explaining the situation, nothing more.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Kagamikazuto Kazuto from NC Since: Feb, 2020 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Kazuto
#60431: Dec 28th 2020 at 5:23:20 PM

Why do you need to ruffle any feathers? Doing something purely to piss people off kinda just makes you a dick.

Can't think of one.
PhoenixAct Since: Feb, 2011
#60432: Dec 28th 2020 at 5:27:04 PM

[up]If you're talking to me I wasn't doing it just to annoy people.

I'm just wondering more and more what you could do with female S Ls, if there wasn't the expectation that a male MC must be able to date them at the end.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#60433: Dec 28th 2020 at 5:27:08 PM

Well that's the thing, the nature of this topic will inevitably ruffle feathers. I've seen enough LGTBQ issues in video games to understand that. Its not intentional at all on the part of the devs, its just a thing that happens unfortunately.

For the record, I'm not claiming that they should not push the boundary on this type of stuff. They absolutely should. I'm only explaining that, as with the Fire Emblem example I posted before, there's potentially going to be scrutiny in its implementation depending on the execution, and Persona already has a rocky reputation with how it handles LGBTQ issues.

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Dec 28th 2020 at 8:28:07 AM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Kagamikazuto Kazuto from NC Since: Feb, 2020 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Kazuto
#60434: Dec 28th 2020 at 5:30:51 PM

I believe there should be more options for everyone who wants to play. I just hate the idea of designing something purely to spite people, that's not how games should be made.

Can't think of one.
PhoenixAct Since: Feb, 2011
#60435: Dec 28th 2020 at 5:31:17 PM

[up][up]Well, yes, I know that topic may irk some people; but I kinda dislike the implication I think Kagamikazuto was making, that including an undateable female SL would be solely to annoy people and no other reason.

[up]It's a good job I wasn't suggesting it solely out of spite then.

Edited by PhoenixAct on Dec 28th 2020 at 1:46:20 PM

EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#60436: Dec 28th 2020 at 5:31:18 PM

i feel the best way to shake a rocky reputation is to stop doing the stuff that earned you a rocky reputation in the first place

a Persona game where you can choose your gender, but both genders share the same social links, would be a great idea. especially if it results in scenarios where, for example, there's a social link with a lesbian, and you can only date her as the female MC but not the male, and vice versa with a gay dude.

especially if the social links play out slightly differently because of societal expectations of gender roles and social dynamics.

or, yknow, just do the absolute bare minimum and give the male mc gay romance options and make a female mc with lesbian romance options.

Edited by EpicBleye on Dec 28th 2020 at 8:33:01 AM

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
deludedmusings Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#60437: Dec 28th 2020 at 5:35:39 PM

Variety in my games? I don't know, sounds risky.

Maybe we could just make a generic open world with crafting and stealth instead.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#60438: Dec 28th 2020 at 5:38:23 PM

That is, quite inevitably, a lot more work on the devs but if they're determined of shaking off their questionable reputation, that's a good start.

We do have precedence for having a female protagonist before, whether they're willing to commit to giving her the same level of personality and attention that they usually give their male protagonists is another question.

P 3 P had to cut back a lot of stuff to make that implementation work, and straight up change how some social links play out (hi Shinji :V) but it would be interesting to see P 3 P given the modern treatment with full implementation.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#60439: Dec 28th 2020 at 5:42:47 PM

honest to god Royal would barely need to change anything to have a female MC

gender impacts so very little over the course of the game, outside of maybe a few lines/scenes in the first couple palaces and modifying the beach scene a bit

the entire game could play out identically, same text and everything, for 99% of the game if they just swapped Joker's pronouns and model, and nothing would be out of place

it's so sad that they never did a female MC for Royal's release

Edited by EpicBleye on Dec 28th 2020 at 8:43:11 AM

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
deludedmusings Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#60440: Dec 28th 2020 at 5:44:51 PM

Female MC would probably have taken less work than Kasumi as a fleshed out full character took.

Kasumi is so Joker-ish it makes me think that was their initial plan.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#60441: Dec 28th 2020 at 5:49:57 PM

Well part of the appeal of Minako was that she was her own character distinct from Makoto, she wasn't just his Distaff Counterpart, but a new character entirely who just happened to be in the same role.

Think it'd be kind of a waste if they just made a female version of the default male character and left it at that.

I ultimately liked Kasumi as a character, so just making her female Joker wouldn't make me like her more tbh.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#60442: Dec 28th 2020 at 5:54:24 PM

the harsh reality might be that people like Minako so much because Minato is so boring [lol]

kidding, kidding, i like Minato

but at the end of the day i think giving the option for Joker to be either a girl or a boy is such a minor change, even if the personalities aren't noticeably different it would have at least provided some variety and been nice for people that would rather play as a girl than a boy

Edited by EpicBleye on Dec 28th 2020 at 8:55:17 AM

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#60443: Dec 28th 2020 at 5:58:12 PM

I think I'm gonna trade in vanilla P5 since I've owned it for a long time and haven't gotten around to playing it for reasons (more of a "me" problem than anything tbh), and then get Royal hopefully sooner than later since it feels like there's no reason to get the vanilla version. Even in spite of this thread's complaints towards the franchise I'm determined to just enjoy it for what it is and what it does well and not let the discourse get to me in a bad way, which is a mentality I'm still trying to kick

Edited by AyyItsMidnight on Dec 28th 2020 at 5:59:16 AM

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#60444: Dec 28th 2020 at 6:00:55 PM

This thread is a minority, and I find the series to be fairly blown out of proportion in terms of complaints as well, though I don't blame people for feeling it.

Watch Symphogear
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#60445: Dec 28th 2020 at 6:02:01 PM

I have no idea what the Hell we were arguing about here in regards to non-straight characters.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#60446: Dec 28th 2020 at 6:02:59 PM

eh? i have criticisms of the franchise but i still really like it. Persona 5 Royal is still a favorite of mine in spite of it's ickiness here and there, and i'm shaping up to really really like 3 FES as i'm playing it

I have no idea what the Hell we were arguing about here in regards to non-straight characters.

that they should exist in the first place? and some sprinkles of "but the gamers wont like seeing two boys kiss :("

Edited by EpicBleye on Dec 28th 2020 at 9:03:55 AM

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
AyyItsMidnight Look, just be decent to one another ok? Since: Oct, 2018
Look, just be decent to one another ok?
#60447: Dec 28th 2020 at 6:03:01 PM

Yeah, no, I absolutely support more variety and MC customization in terms of sexuality and who you can date. Which feels all the more necessary nowadays to fix for a lot of reasons.

Edited by AyyItsMidnight on Dec 28th 2020 at 6:03:36 AM

Self-serious autistic trans gal who loves rock/metal and animation with all her heart. (she/her)
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#60448: Dec 28th 2020 at 6:05:03 PM

[up][up] It was like when Fire Emblem was brought up, I really didn’t understand the relevancy or similarity’s to the topic.

I mean of course some people will complain, anything non-hetero will always rile up some people.

Edited by slimcoder on Dec 28th 2020 at 6:06:21 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#60449: Dec 28th 2020 at 6:21:32 PM

Even in spite of this thread's complaints towards the franchise I'm determined to just enjoy it for what it is and what it does well and not let the discourse get to me in a bad way, which is a mentality I'm still trying to kick

As someone who has often criticized P5's writing for being unsatisfying in certain ways (honestly, in retrospect I feel like I went a bit overboard with that for a game I mostly still enjoyed), it's still probably one of the best JRPG's of the last few years and at least worth checking out. There's no such thing as a perfect game, most games I really enjoy I can find many flaws or things that can be improved.

I don't necessarily think the issues people brought up here are "overblown", but I wouldn't use that as the sole barometer of whether P5 or the series as a whole is any good or not especially since multiple people here like Yumil enjoy the game a fair amount. I've found that its cadence and writing doesn't speak to me now the same way they did did before, but that has as much to do with its the series' own flaws and limitations as my own personal tastes changing from when I got into the series with P4 more than a decade ago (in contrast i've found myself becoming more interested in the mainline SMT series), and while I can't speak for anyone else, I feel that might also be at the root of a lot of complaints you hear about P5.

Anyway, the point is P5 is still mostly a quality game that deserves a fair shake and Royal in particular did some interesting stuff from the sounds of it so I don't think you're really going wrong with playing that instead.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Dec 28th 2020 at 11:23:59 AM

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#60450: Dec 28th 2020 at 6:24:22 PM

I only really brought up FE as a comparison to how some issues are handled, not much else.

And no, don't let the complains about Persona deter you. It's still a great series and Royal brings a lot of things to the plate. It's not a perfect series, but nothing is ever is or will be perfect. Enjoy the series for what it is, not for what it isn't.

It absolutely should add more options and be more inclusive, but the fact that it lacks those elements doesn't make it any less of a great game, unless those are elements are dealbreakers for you.

[up] I do think that's a distinct point too; a lot of the "hate" for P5's writing is mostly stemming from people who simply do not resonate with it's message. Which is fine, but I think its an important distinction to make. Our tastes change with time and maturity; we might have liked something ten years ago and find out that our perspectives on that have changed with time.

Most people who came into Persona and loved it were likely teenagers, you know the game's main demographic and that's why those messages resonated with you. Because the main character's were in our own age group.

Most of us are adults now, with a fresher perspective on the world than we had when we were teenagers. Persona 5 is still aimed at teenagers, so naturally it's messages and themes may not resonate with us now that we're adults versus when we were teenagers. And that's fine. Sometimes you just grow out of something

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Dec 28th 2020 at 9:28:43 AM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.

Total posts: 66,260
Top