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BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#60401: Dec 28th 2020 at 6:02:28 AM

[up][up]You don't have to date her you know.

[up] Boooo, they should have went and pulled the trigger.

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Dec 28th 2020 at 9:03:06 AM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
I-M-THE-Jetyl-1 the Original Jetyl Since: Oct, 2019
the Original Jetyl
#60402: Dec 28th 2020 at 10:44:19 AM

You don't have to date anyone in the game. Doesn't mean the game doesn't expect you to be dating people, or to generally frame joker as a straight male power fantasy, whether you want to engage with that particular fantasy or not.

I forgot my password, and I want my old Forum handle back!!!
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#60403: Dec 28th 2020 at 12:37:23 PM

You can literally play Joker as acesexual if you desired. The game can be played in full without dating anyone and Royal will even still give you thr Valentines Day benefits if you do so.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#60404: Dec 28th 2020 at 1:12:45 PM

I don't care about this conversation, but you're not refuting Jetyl's point. He knows he can ignore it, everyone does when they complain about this subject, that doesn't mean what he's saying about developer intent is incorrect.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#60405: Dec 28th 2020 at 1:28:10 PM

Something being optional does mean people don't have to engage with it, but that doesn't automatically mean the inclusion and intent behind it can't be scrutinized. It's still in the game.

I get that people like Sae and want to romance her but I'm glad the game didn't do that because it would have been seriously skeevy.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Dec 28th 2020 at 6:28:39 AM

Altris from the Vortex Since: Aug, 2019 Relationship Status: Not caught up in your love affair
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#60407: Dec 28th 2020 at 1:36:14 PM

So if the option of being able to date people is problematic now. What can be done to address that short of just removing the option altogether? More gay options?

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Dec 28th 2020 at 4:36:38 AM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Altris from the Vortex Since: Aug, 2019 Relationship Status: Not caught up in your love affair
#60408: Dec 28th 2020 at 1:41:08 PM

The argument is not "the option of dating people is problematic", the argument is "the dating options display a male power fantasy because of the game's writing".

As for something addressing it, I would say a patch or similar rewriting the dating options to not evoke a male power fantasy.

So, let's hang an anchor from the sun... also my Tumblr
asterism from the place I'm at Since: Apr, 2011 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#60409: Dec 28th 2020 at 1:46:11 PM

Honestly people whining about Sae not being dateable sounds to me like French aristocrats complaining that their cake is the wrong flavour.

Bewitching Eyes
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#60410: Dec 28th 2020 at 1:49:12 PM

I have never gotten the love for Sae.

vicarious vicarious from NC, USA Since: Feb, 2013
vicarious
#60411: Dec 28th 2020 at 1:58:59 PM

Having a romantic storyline with Sae would be more acceptable I guess if Joker was college student or young adult (20s)

You could probably even work in an angle of Joker being someone who was formerly interested in law or politics but because of what happened

It would take away a lot of role playing since Joker would then be a very concrete defined character

darkabomination Since: Mar, 2012
#60412: Dec 28th 2020 at 2:00:33 PM

Domineering older woman that gets up in your face for half the game.

vicarious vicarious from NC, USA Since: Feb, 2013
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#60414: Dec 28th 2020 at 2:09:12 PM

@Altris: And how exactly would you do that?

The main appeal of the dating mechanic is that (you) the player help these individuals with their personal problems and grow closer to them. The only way to "fix" that is either add more options that appeal to people or just drop the mechanic altogether. Most people's issues with the power fantasy is the option to date some of the characters to begin with and how it's geared towards males mainly.

@Very Melon: Ignoring my personal tastes, she is one of the most prominent supporting characters in the game and is the sibling of one of the other main characters.

So it honestly comes down to how much you're invested in Makoto and Sae's dynamic and how the latter helps you in the last leg of the game.

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Dec 28th 2020 at 5:09:52 AM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#60415: Dec 28th 2020 at 2:50:38 PM

For me personally I think the solution is just to add more options (including female protag which shouldn't have just been a one-off thing for 3) so if you're not a straight guy you can find other stuff to suit your tastes and roleplay as something else.

EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#60416: Dec 28th 2020 at 3:06:29 PM

1. Make not every woman a dateable option, including some your age

2. Give us gay options

3. Give us the ability to play as a woman

4. Give us the ability to play as a woman with gay options

It really isn't that hard to have a Romance system that isn't just a straight male power fantasy

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#60417: Dec 28th 2020 at 3:16:08 PM

In fairness to wanting to date Sae, Shadow Sae probably didn't help dissuade anybody. Quite the opposite.

She notably wasn't all gross like the other Shadow Villains. Once again, quite the opposite.

OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#60418: Dec 28th 2020 at 4:08:41 PM

I wanted Sae tobe dateable, and in exachange I would have preferred if the drunk wasnt dateable nor the little girls who dom being into Joker.

And Ive made my preferred Gay Options before clear.

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
PhoenixAct Since: Feb, 2011
#60419: Dec 28th 2020 at 4:23:07 PM

I do wonder sometimes how the games (and the player base) would deal with a case of Incompatible Orientation.

Like having a female social link who's just not into you because she's into other women; or, vice-versa.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#60420: Dec 28th 2020 at 4:25:39 PM

I recall Cyberpunk 2077 has characters who are only romanceble to certain genders.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#60421: Dec 28th 2020 at 4:29:07 PM

[up][up][up][up][up][up] You say that, but Fire Emblem caught a lot of hell for this for a few years. Even the recent entry with Three Houses had some controversy over the ratio of wlw options compared to the mlm options, with the former dwarfing the latter by a good degree until more options were added.

In fact, there are two Male supports that have S rank (which is basically a marriage) for the Male avatar but said supports are already married to other women, so you can't actually date them and the male just ends up marrying a nameless village girl.

[up][up] As I said with Fire Emblem, probably some controversy. Fans would feel "cheated" and baited. Bait-and-Switch Lesbians basically.

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Dec 28th 2020 at 7:29:31 AM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
PhoenixAct Since: Feb, 2011
#60422: Dec 28th 2020 at 4:32:07 PM

[up]How would it be bait and switch lesbians if the character is an actual lesbian, and remains so the entire game?

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#60423: Dec 28th 2020 at 4:38:01 PM

It depends on the execution of it, but to go back to the Fire Emblem example.

S ranks in Fire Emblem are basically marriage proposals, that has been a consistent trend for years. The latest entry, Fire Emblem: Three Houses has multiple same sex options for both avatar genders. The male has significantly less same sex options than the female does. The male has two S rank options that are male, but when you actually S rank them, they don't actually reciprocate for whatever reason, and the male avatar's epilogue says they just married a village girl.

This is the first instance where an S rank option does not end in a romance in the entire series to date.

So I'd imagine that if players had a specific character in mind they wanted to romance, and then revealed that they could not in fact date them, it would ruffle some feathers.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#60424: Dec 28th 2020 at 4:42:44 PM

I don't know anything about FE but I don't see why this is any different than a WRPG like Dragon Age.

You can date some people and not others. Hardly the end of the world.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#60425: Dec 28th 2020 at 4:44:47 PM

It was a big deal because Fire Emblem already was catching hell for lack of same sex options for years. Three Houses is honestly the first time they really pushed for it, so having them cheapen out like that for a potential mlm option is why it pissed people off, and that's on top of the lack of mlm options to begin with in the game.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.

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