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BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#60376: Dec 27th 2020 at 4:55:44 PM

Which is hilarious given the disproportionate amount of fan attention she has. You'd swear she was a bigger character.

Being an abuse and potential sexual assault victim definitely earns you points with the audience I guess.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
PhoenixAct Since: Feb, 2011
#60377: Dec 27th 2020 at 4:59:18 PM

I mean, I like to think that the attention she gets from the fanbase is due to the lack of attention she gets in the main game after that moment.

EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#60378: Dec 27th 2020 at 4:59:28 PM

i definitely agree that Shiho should have figured more heavily into Ann's confidant- and unfortunately Ann's confidant ranks on the lower end for me in that game.

but i think her role in the story is definitely up by that point- there's no where else for her to really factor into aside from Ann's motivations.

if Shiho had been a major part of Ann's Confidant it would have been honestly excellent, with us following up on shiho's situation and how it's impacted both her and Ann, it would have been exactly what Persona's Social Link system does well and why it shines with party members in the first place.

but it didnt, so it didnt.

social links/confidants are an excellent means of expanding how the story has impacted a character and having them process through it... like Ryuji's confidant, where it's just one of the best SL/Confidants in the whole series. Joker helps Ryuji figure out "well, what happens now?" after Kamoshida is gone, and what the events of the plot means to him and what happened to him, and helps him find new meaning in his struggles.

but sometimes we end up with the characters going something largely unrelated, which helps build their character, sure, but doesn't help address character moments or how they've developed because of the plot... like Ann and Makoto's Confidants.

Edited by EpicBleye on Dec 27th 2020 at 8:19:15 AM

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
darkabomination Since: Mar, 2012
#60379: Dec 27th 2020 at 5:29:27 PM

Shiho's criminally underused. She's Ann's best friend, the player's given brief but very memorable and sympathetic interactions with her, and you get to know her a lot, and with an expressive VA. It's a shame the game only cares about her so much as she's Ann's motivation for joining the PT. She's narratively stuffed in the fridge, and at best, it plays up her genuine depression and abuse as a sympathy card, just so it can have the shock value of using suicide as cheap revenge fuel. Then she's basically done and over with as a character. No Confidant of her own, she's barely a part of Ann's, you can't even see her in the hospital really like Nanako. She's just there to explain why Ann's a party member, in the long and short of it.

Aleistar Since: Feb, 2018 Relationship Status: Hugging my pillow
#60380: Dec 27th 2020 at 5:51:33 PM

As someone who hasn't played any version of P5: if Shiho were to become a confidant, what Arcana would she be?

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#60381: Dec 27th 2020 at 5:51:52 PM

I don't think the devs really planned on Shiho being all that popular.

And to be honest, if she were a confidant, she would be a potential romance option and that's opening an bigger can of worms. So it was probably for thr best she got what she did.

She definitely could have a played a bigger role in Ann's confidant tho.

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Dec 27th 2020 at 8:52:14 AM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
PhoenixAct Since: Feb, 2011
#60382: Dec 27th 2020 at 6:06:19 PM

As much as it would irk some people, they don't have to make every female social link a potential love interest.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#60383: Dec 27th 2020 at 6:08:54 PM

That's why I said its a can of worms. If you could romance her, that's fucked up. If you couldn't, then as annoying as it may sound, it defeats the purpose to some people.

Also, it would beg of question; dating an abuse victim of your own age group is bad, but dating four adults, one of them being your teacher is perfectly alright?

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Dec 27th 2020 at 9:09:15 AM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#60384: Dec 27th 2020 at 6:11:29 PM

dating an abuse victim of your own age group is bad

that is absolutely not the case, nor is it the point anyone was making, i dont think.

i think what most people would be worried about is how it's handled, and unfortunately that being "tastefully" is painfully unlikely

it's an immensely difficult topic, especially when it comes to a relationship, and quite frankly i dont think a flashy JRPG is the right place to tackle the subject matter.

especially not when it needs to be contained to just 10 interactions.

i think more social links/confidants need to not be romanceable. all the adult ones creep me out, except for maybe Chihaya and Ohya who're only a few years older than joker by that point and aren't directly in a position above joker. the kawakami one is kinda creepy and hits me on a personal level, and takemi's is just uncomfortable given your nature as a high school assistant.

that being said, i dont think they're HORRIBLE given how they're handled in-game, just squicky

Edited by EpicBleye on Dec 27th 2020 at 9:17:25 AM

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
PhoenixAct Since: Feb, 2011
#60385: Dec 27th 2020 at 6:15:11 PM

[up][up]Yeah, I know some people will cry foul if their not allowed to romance the girl upon completing their confidante. However, I think it kind of limits the writing when they have to treat every girl as a potential love interest. It would be better if only a select few were potential love interests.

Social links should be about examining the characters and exploring their growth.

This is, of course, only my opinion.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#60386: Dec 27th 2020 at 6:17:14 PM

Heh imagine if there was a female option and you were let to date guys like Iwai.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#60387: Dec 27th 2020 at 6:19:58 PM

[up][up]Depends on how it's handled; whether you like it or not, the dating sim aspects were what made the modern series popular.

Altering them is going to ruffle some feathers unless it was handled delicately.

Even the Kawakami romance points out that the relationship isn't really right but it something that Joker wants to pursue.

[up][up][up] I mean, that's exactly why I said its a can of worms and why Shiho not being a confidant was ultimately for the best in the long run.

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Dec 27th 2020 at 9:20:27 AM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#60388: Dec 27th 2020 at 6:56:11 PM

The social sim aspects are what made the series popular, not just the dating. Sure the dating part does matter a good deal given how people are about waifus but it goes beyond just that.

I do agree that some people wouldn't like female characters not being romanceable but in my opinion while persona is a power fantasy, not every aspect of it needs to or should be about indulging the player. I feel like that's one of the problems P5 had because IMO none of the adults in the game should be romanceable, it's inappropriate and feels dissonant to the overall theme the game is going for.

asterism from the place I'm at Since: Apr, 2011 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#60389: Dec 27th 2020 at 7:04:55 PM

if Shiho were to become a confidant, what Arcana would she be?
The Hanged Man

Bewitching Eyes
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#60390: Dec 27th 2020 at 7:06:41 PM

Well they established from the getgo that any female is datable....which was already skeevy to begin with, but nobody really batted an eye since most people were too young to under the implications.

Persona 4 compromised and made dating completely optional.

So I'm sure if they had the adults tell you straight up that you won't date it wouldn't have been too bad. But then half of the female confidante are adult women. So having half of the female roster being off limits would be annoying

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
asterism from the place I'm at Since: Apr, 2011 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#60391: Dec 27th 2020 at 8:17:43 PM

Dating an alcoholic adult twice your age is fine, but a boy? That would be weird.

Bewitching Eyes
OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#60392: Dec 28th 2020 at 12:07:23 AM

Don't forget being dommed by two little girls who love you and want to share you.

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#60393: Dec 28th 2020 at 12:10:19 AM

hey now, they eventually fuse into one little girl who wants to domme you and have you for herself

mathematically speaking that's half as bad

Edited by EpicBleye on Dec 28th 2020 at 3:10:38 PM

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
deludedmusings Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#60395: Dec 28th 2020 at 1:35:41 AM

Back when I was playing P 4 G a few months ago I declared on the P 4 G subreddit that P4 was a uniquely horny game. What with Rise, Yukiko, ALL the boys (notably Akihiko and Yusuke have no time for that kinda thing in P3 and P5 but every male party member in 4 is horny) and then female adults like Kashiwagi and Sayoko, it just felt like it was pushing the sex appeal more than the others.

Maybe I underestimated P5.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#60396: Dec 28th 2020 at 3:56:59 AM

Dude, one of Joker's dialogue options if Chihaya asks him if he likes older women is, and I quote, "Hell yea". And that's before you get the option to date her. Joker is a cougar hunter.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Cosplaythief Since: Jun, 2013
#60397: Dec 28th 2020 at 5:53:12 AM

Wait, did they implement Sae's dropped dating option status in Royal? I'm pretty sure the every girl is dateable feature was already dropped to begin with.

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#60398: Dec 28th 2020 at 5:59:09 AM

Nope, from what I've seen, Sae's Confidant in Royal is identical to the base game.

The legend has returned.
darkabomination Since: Mar, 2012
#60399: Dec 28th 2020 at 6:00:50 AM

I wish Ann weren't. The poor girl goes through so much racial prejudice, sexism, and objectification both by characters and by the narrative itself I just want her to have a break.

Cosplaythief Since: Jun, 2013
#60400: Dec 28th 2020 at 6:01:33 AM

Thanks, then all is well in the world for me then.


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