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MisterTambourineMan Unbeugsame Klinge from Under a tree Since: Jun, 2017 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
Unbeugsame Klinge
#60251: Dec 5th 2020 at 9:04:05 PM

I know that there are systemic problems with police in the US, but it seems excessive to complain about a game having exactly one sympathetic member of the police.

Also, this is complaining that a Japanese game set in Japan isn't reflecting societal problems of the US.

Nach jeder Ebbe kommt die Flut.
NoName999 Since: May, 2011
#60252: Dec 5th 2020 at 9:05:28 PM

[up]*5 Yes, but that was after the fact that she had to hear the integration to even begin to be swayed

Before then, she was portrayed as starting to show the rot as her bosses did.

Also, she quit to become a defense attorney at the end of the game. Which indicates the problem is the system. If this was a story about Sae the "good attorney", after she exposed her boss as a criminal, the story will end. No mention of her boss is getting orders from the top to perform these corrupted acts. No mention of how Japan's extreme collective society turns a blind eye to the injustices.

[up]The cop culture in Japan is garbage as well. I didn't mention anything about the United States.

Edited by NoName999 on Dec 5th 2020 at 9:07:22 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#60253: Dec 5th 2020 at 9:09:24 PM

That 100% conviction rate yawl.

We all got problemos.

Edited by slimcoder on Dec 5th 2020 at 9:09:50 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#60254: Dec 5th 2020 at 9:16:01 PM

I'm pretty sure one of the main points of that that I've read are that Japanese prosecutors have a lot of leeway in choosing which cases to go forward with (there's a special system that I can't remember that gives them that ability) and tend to go only for cases that are "slam-dunks".

In fact, here's this book that should be enlightening. It's called "The Japanese Way of Justice: Prosecuting Crime in Japan".

Edited by fredhot16 on Dec 5th 2020 at 9:31:24 AM

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#60255: Dec 5th 2020 at 9:22:06 PM

And the Police break down people into custody until they agree to do what they want, which is why theres a camera in the room in P5. That became mandatory due to Police Brutality being that bad.

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#60256: Dec 5th 2020 at 9:27:50 PM

Yeah, I've read about that. It's late so I can't pull up a handy-dandy book but Japanese interrogations...can be very unfun.

I do have this paper that talks about them, a bit dated it may be.

This is what being a research nut and Ace Attorney gets you, people.

Edited by fredhot16 on Dec 5th 2020 at 9:32:33 AM

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
MisterTambourineMan Unbeugsame Klinge from Under a tree Since: Jun, 2017 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
Unbeugsame Klinge
#60257: Dec 5th 2020 at 9:38:49 PM

I just now had it confirmed beyond the shadow of a doubt that having everybody in a thread go after me is a Trauma Button, so I'm having some trouble putting together a reply.

Nach jeder Ebbe kommt die Flut.
fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#60258: Dec 5th 2020 at 9:41:25 PM

Take your time, dude. Sorry if everybody seems like they're dogpiling you.

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#60259: Dec 5th 2020 at 9:43:47 PM

I didnt read the other posts beyond fredhots when I posted that, since that was a tidbit I figured needed mentioned to also go with them winning surefire cases.

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
MisterTambourineMan Unbeugsame Klinge from Under a tree Since: Jun, 2017 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
Unbeugsame Klinge
#60260: Dec 5th 2020 at 9:59:33 PM

[up][up] Thank you.

I have known about the issues with Japan's legal system for some time, stemming in part from discussions about Ace Attorney and partly from a warning to never be a foreigner in Japan anywhere near a crime. I also know that, while the US has an outstanding problem with police violence for various reasons, it's not unheard of in the rest of the world (Nigeria's protests against their special police force, a recent incident in which French police attacked a black man, to name a few examples), the general attitude of don't portray any member of the police in fiction as sympathetic becoming more mainstream was something I've largely associated- perhaps incorrectly- with the US.

And part of the reason is simply that I like Zenkichi as a character. Though it's probably also worth pointing out that in his backstory, he actually did his best to be principled only to have the conspiracy from the first P5 come down on him and threaten his daughter if he continued investigating them, so while the game portrays him sympathetically, it doesn't really portray the overall justice system any more favorably than the original game did.

Edited by MisterTambourineMan on Dec 5th 2020 at 9:59:59 AM

Nach jeder Ebbe kommt die Flut.
Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#60261: Dec 5th 2020 at 10:35:17 PM

@No Name 999: Quit being an ass about what you have to say, please.

Edited by Demongodofchaos2 on Dec 5th 2020 at 1:35:29 PM

Watch Symphogear
NoName999 Since: May, 2011
Yumil Mad Archivist Since: Mar, 2016
Mad Archivist
#60263: Dec 6th 2020 at 1:43:39 AM

I can hear the notion that the system is at fault because it does protect the bad individuals, but doesn't the same logic hold true for a massively larger amount of things than just the police ? Like, the recent case of the sexual misconducts at Ubisoft where the HR basically protected those guys comes to mind. Would it also be bad for fiction to depict a videogame developer who's not an asshole ? Is it also bad for fiction to depict a millionaire who's also a good guy ?

Cause if yes, I have to ask how far we have to walk that road before we end up in a dead end, and if no, what makes the former not okay but the latter two fine ? Topical relevance ?

But even disgregaridng that, it doesn't seem all terribly relevant to P 5 S. Per Asterism spoiler, it ulimately agrees that the "good cop" will eventually be forced out of the police for refusing to enable the beahvior of the rest, which both ultimately agrees with the idea that the system is in dire need of a reform, and also depicts the struggle of a reasonable cop struggling to do the right thing among a corrupt system, which is also a thing that exists and antagonizing those people seems like a monumental mistake to me, and puts forward the same criticism "the system is at fault" without resorting to paint all cops with the same brush.

Edited by Yumil on Dec 6th 2020 at 10:43:55 AM

"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."
Chariot King of Anime Since: Jul, 2014
King of Anime
#60264: Dec 6th 2020 at 2:13:08 AM

Would it also be bad for fiction to depict a videogame developer who's not an asshole ? Is it also bad for fiction to depict a millionaire who's also a good guy ?
No because there is no system where being a videogame developer or millionaire is inherently bad. There are bad videogame developers and millionaires just like there are good ones. There's no such thing as a "good cop" because the system itself is bad and any truly good cop has either been fired for not being complacent with the system or has left being a cop behind because they recognize that the system is bad.

what makes the former not okay but the latter two fine?
The purpose of the police is to enforce laws, even ones that are unjust. Even a "good cop" who doesn't abuse citizens or anything like that does so. The system is rotten and all who are a part of it are as well. Meanwhile the purpose of HR is to protect workers. That's it. That some HR departments are trash doesn't mean all HR departments and the companies they work for are. Likewise millionaires don't have a specific purpose or system that they serve so one millionaire being terrible doesn't mean all are. That's why it's okay to portray videogame developers and millionaires positively but not cops.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#60265: Dec 6th 2020 at 4:59:37 AM

I get why some people have an issue with it, but I'm not against positively portrayed cops in fiction so I welcome Zenkichi.

MisterTambourineMan Unbeugsame Klinge from Under a tree Since: Jun, 2017 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
Unbeugsame Klinge
#60266: Dec 6th 2020 at 5:25:28 AM

[up][up] HR departments don't protect workers, they protect companies.

Edited by MisterTambourineMan on Dec 6th 2020 at 5:25:45 AM

Nach jeder Ebbe kommt die Flut.
asterism from the place I'm at Since: Apr, 2011 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#60267: Dec 6th 2020 at 6:12:10 AM

Zenkichi is also a detective and therefore somewhat less objectionable

Bewitching Eyes
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#60268: Dec 8th 2020 at 7:24:03 AM

Looks like the trailer’s live officially now.

My musician page
Risdio51 The Unknown Pleasure they were talking about from that exit they call Paradise Since: Jun, 2019 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
The Unknown Pleasure they were talking about
#60269: Dec 8th 2020 at 7:29:14 AM

Oh yes.

I can't say goodbye to yesterday…
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#60270: Dec 8th 2020 at 7:29:25 AM

Looking good, Joker.

The legend has returned.
vicarious vicarious from NC, USA Since: Feb, 2013
vicarious
#60271: Dec 8th 2020 at 10:40:19 AM

Thank god

Pun intended, it’s good to have it be official over here

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#60272: Dec 8th 2020 at 1:56:22 PM

It's a little strange to me that this spin-off game that (comparatively) a lot fewer people will care about compared to P5 proper got a PC port first, but this is a good sign.

darkabomination Since: Mar, 2012
#60273: Dec 9th 2020 at 8:31:32 AM

I mean, Catherine got a PC port before anything else, who knows the strange whims of the Atlus galaxy brain.

Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#60274: Dec 9th 2020 at 12:11:36 PM

Its Sega pushing Atlus to do it, If I recall.

Edited by Demongodofchaos2 on Dec 9th 2020 at 3:12:55 PM

Watch Symphogear
NeoChaos (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#60275: Dec 10th 2020 at 8:38:24 AM

It also helps that Omega Force has done PC ports of their games before, so it's not asking too much of them to add that to their workload for the localization.

Edited by NeoChaos on Dec 10th 2020 at 11:06:01 AM


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