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OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#59501: Jul 17th 2020 at 1:51:40 PM

Flim Flam pulled a Hes All Grown Up in that movie about the last ghost.

And Velma tries to wrap her head around ghosts being real or not.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Jul 17th 2020 at 1:51:46 AM

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#59502: Jul 17th 2020 at 1:53:34 PM

Yeah. Velma nearly breaks at the whole thing. But she also figures things out because she remembers the rules despite not buying them.

Anyway, like I said, Naoto has to be Flim-Flam by default. He's the only one left, since everyone else has a role.

One Strip! One Strip!
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#59503: Jul 18th 2020 at 12:08:31 PM

Okay so Kanji's dungeon is done. I finally won at Level 21 on 5/22 after lots o grinding and forfeiting so much money to that damned fox. I did better than my first run. I think so, anyway. I think it only took 3 or 4 days? I always panic in these games but end up having more time than what I know what to do with so here's hoping I'm making good time.

I've been very lucky. While grinding my Jack Frost got a card to auto level up and so I got Bufula without any real effort. Also very grateful that my Archangel's Muzzle Shot was upgraded via card into Seal Bomb - Medium Phys damage to all enemies + Silence. It's been invaluable against those sort of winged mage enemies who just kill you if they get off one level 2 spell. I also had a decent supply of Diamond Shields for the boss which was invaluable at points.

What's different about Shadow Kanji in original Persona 4 that makes him harder there?

But yeah, I'm gonna try to diversify my interests this run, do S Links I neglected last time like Kanji and Naoto. Also gonna try to use them in gameplay this time around. I hear Kanji is better than Chie and Naoto, while apparently shitty in the original game, is very good here.

Edited by Nikkolas on Jul 18th 2020 at 12:12:37 PM

asterism from the place I'm at Since: Apr, 2011 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#59504: Jul 18th 2020 at 2:05:01 PM

His minions don't have weaknesses so they're much harder to kill and the Nice Guy can (and will) use Diarama

Also Tough Guy drains Physicals, which essentially means Chie is deadweight for 2/3 of the fight

Edited by asterism on Jul 18th 2020 at 9:08:10 AM

Bewitching Eyes
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#59505: Jul 18th 2020 at 3:13:55 PM

So that sounds pretty stupid and I think is overall reflective of Persona's poor gameplay. They tried to fix it in Golden but the problem is fundamental.

That really is something I've come to notice. 3-4 years ago, I started this magic journey into SMT and Persona. I remember before I got into SMT or Persona somebody on here said the Persona 3 battle system - whatever it's technically called - is better than Nocturne's Press Turn System. Somebody disagreed and they argued about it.

Now, years later and having played multiple SMT and Persona games multiple times, I come down firmly on the pro-SMT side.

Persona dumps all the heavy lifting on the MC. Buffs, debuffs, damage, it's all up to you while your party scrabbles to pitch in however best they can and sometimes they are just plain useless like in the above example because they are so hardwired into their roles while the game is about versatility.

I don't mind Classes or combat roles or anything... I just don't know how well it works here in terms of enjoyment. I definitely think the best SMT gameplay shits all over the best Persona gameplay.

Strange Journey was kinda interesting as it's almost the anti-Persona in that your demons were far more useful than you.

RodimusMinor Professional Complainer Since: Oct, 2018
Professional Complainer
#59506: Jul 18th 2020 at 3:44:23 PM

Until you get the Frost Cannon at any rate.

Then you're just murdering dudes with Dyne-spells while they're just learning tier-2.

OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#59507: Jul 18th 2020 at 3:53:05 PM

Must say I like Yahtzees review of Golden now that its on stream.

"Is it fair to compare Persona 4 to Persona 5? NO" [Proceeds to do exactly that]

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#59508: Jul 18th 2020 at 4:07:42 PM

Persona 3's turn-based combat was a problem only because you couldn't control your party members. When given the option it's much better, though I still think Persona's Once More System is inferior to the Press Turn System in the proper SMT titles.

Persona 5 Royal's upgrades to the Baton Pass mechanics makes it the best version of the Once More System to date, and in my opinion just as good as the Press Turn System.

Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#59509: Jul 18th 2020 at 5:45:16 PM

I honestly think P 5 R's One More and Baton pass combo is actually BETTER then the Turn Press System, myself.

Its so slick and fast in how you switch characters its mind boggling, and unlike Vanilla, its not confidant based, but usable as soon as a new party member joins, making it much more viable to bring your new Party member into the palace they awaken in.

Watch Symphogear
darkabomination Since: Mar, 2012
#59510: Jul 18th 2020 at 7:11:14 PM

Yeah, that's why in Press Turn games, you can just sacrifice a half turn on a demon that would be useless. In Persona, without a Baton Pass, eventually everyone but you becomes dead weight if they can't buff, cure/inflict statuses, or keep up the weakness chains.

RodimusMinor Professional Complainer Since: Oct, 2018
Professional Complainer
#59511: Jul 18th 2020 at 7:20:12 PM

I like Press Turn but it didn't really get good until Digital Devil Saga and especially SMTIV. It's basically a non-factor in Nocturne's boss battles.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#59512: Jul 18th 2020 at 7:28:12 PM

Only if you don't know how to get crits during boss fights.

RodimusMinor Professional Complainer Since: Oct, 2018
Professional Complainer
#59513: Jul 18th 2020 at 8:01:21 PM

I am not aware of any crit abilities in Nocturne, unless you're talking about Bright/Dark Might.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#59514: Jul 18th 2020 at 8:07:49 PM

[up][up][up] Except when the boss decides to just give themselves more turns and you gotta figure out a way to deal with that.

When I played Nocturne Hard Type one of the legit hardest bosses was fucking Hell Biker.

Of course, dummy me never noticed Void only removes two Turns while Repel removes all of them. This person thankfully showed me that fact.

Still, my incompetence aside, it does show how important understanding the system is for bosses, even when it's sorta the reverse; you gotta figure out how to make them waste turns instead of you gaining some.

Edited by Nikkolas on Jul 18th 2020 at 8:08:51 AM

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#59515: Jul 18th 2020 at 8:17:04 PM

Watching that video, I'm surprised Hell Biker didn't just Megidolan the hell out of that dude.

I mean, that's a thing that happens right? If you hit a weakness...or null or repel your own weaknesses....or just do anything the game doesn't like, it they just use their turns to fuck you up with the one unblockable attack in the entire game.

One Strip! One Strip!
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#59516: Jul 18th 2020 at 8:24:58 PM

That's a joke about...Elizabeth, right? I never did her or Margaret's optional fights but somebody did warn me about that way back when.

SMT has a reputation for cheap bullshit but I really think Persona deserves that rep instead.

SMT's bullshit is when a boss resists Almighty. That doesn't make sense. Devil Survivor 2 at least let you bypass this resistance but it's still dumb.

Almighty isn't even that good in your hands given it gets no buffs from passive abilities like elemental spells. Coupled with the greater SP cost than elemental spells, it's just not worth it most of the time.

Edited by Nikkolas on Jul 18th 2020 at 8:30:23 AM

RodimusMinor Professional Complainer Since: Oct, 2018
Professional Complainer
#59517: Jul 18th 2020 at 8:29:32 PM

I think the progenitor of "flipping out and instakilling" was the EX Dungeon fight with Philemon in Persona 2: EP, where if you use the Armageddon spell against him he blocks it and uses his own to wipe you out.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#59518: Jul 18th 2020 at 8:33:42 PM

Never fought him, either. It's like...do more, extra gameplay in a Persona game?

That's why I never played The Answer. More P3 plot and characters? Sounds great! Oh, it's 90% merciless grinding and gameplay? Nevermind.

When P 3 P comes to Steam maybe we can just declare it never happened. Although the Fe MC is like "canon" now right? She's from some alt universe?

Edited by Nikkolas on Jul 18th 2020 at 8:35:07 AM

EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#59519: Jul 18th 2020 at 8:39:13 PM

correct. she's from an alt universe, and notably none of the male P3's cast recognize her at all.

though how "canon" she is can be debated given Persona Q and Q2's dubious canonicity and how much of her timeline even makes sense when trying to line them up with stuff like The Answer or the Arena games.

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
RodimusMinor Professional Complainer Since: Oct, 2018
Professional Complainer
#59520: Jul 18th 2020 at 8:42:01 PM

I thought PQ just ran on "and they all forgot."

EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#59521: Jul 18th 2020 at 8:48:39 PM

yeah, so it very clearly can fit into canon, but the fact that it can fit into canon doesn't necessarily make it canon. especially since none of the other games ever refer to it (or Q2).

i'm going with the assumption that they're canon, but i can see arguments why people would say it's not

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#59522: Jul 18th 2020 at 8:49:50 PM

I mean, they do all forget. I'm not sure why people want to claim it's not canon when they went through the trouble of choosing times for all three games when the entire party is together (especially for 3 and 5).

The everyone forgets caveat prevents them from giving up any details. I get that some people don't care for them, so I suppose you can have it both ways. Since nothing that happens in either game matters, then ultimately you can take other interpretation.

One Strip! One Strip!
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#59523: Jul 19th 2020 at 7:56:54 AM

So I'll be honest, I wasn't having fun with P5 so I did dump the difficulty down to the lowest setting because of the art boss kicking my ass and I just didn't want to deal with it. So i freely admit I might have overlooked P5's gameplay improvements because J just never really had to engage with the battle system. I certainly don't remember much about it all these years later.

Is Baton Pass like how you can skip a turn in SMT? Because I won't deny, that would be pretty great to have here. Yosuke was dead weight/a liability for much of Shadow Kanji and getting an extra move from literally any one of the other three would have helped significantly.

So that is definitely a very cool addition, something P3 and 4 were sorely missing.

darkabomination Since: Mar, 2012
#59524: Jul 19th 2020 at 8:25:55 AM

It's even better than a half Press, because it'll immediately bump that character to you, so you're not even skipping turns to get back to you.

And yeah, I'd agree, for all its reputation, Persona has some harder things than Nocturne. The heavily segmented schedule and randomized dungeons make navigation easy, but it and the card system throw a lot of RNG in your favor when it comes to early acquiring Personas. In mainline, you can just go talking in battles and get an early start on the Compendium.

Also the way dungeons are long and love to choke you out on SP is a kind of unfair I never had to deal with, even in the Amala Network. Doing Yukiko's Castle or Kamoshida's Palace in one trip is legit one of the hardest things a JRPG has asked of me.

Kagamikazuto Kazuto from NC Since: Feb, 2020 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Kazuto
#59525: Jul 19th 2020 at 4:33:38 PM

Someone please Persona that I don't like Akechi as much as they seem to think I do. I don't hate him because I believe hating fictional characters is really silly, but I'm not in love with him. Besides, I vastly prefer Kasumi.

Can't think of one.

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