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RodimusMinor Professional Complainer Since: Oct, 2018
Professional Complainer
#59476: Jul 16th 2020 at 9:05:25 AM

It's fine if the game is built for it. SMTIV/Apoc is all about giving and taking huge damage, so it had to be removed.

Throwing unblockable instant death spells is not doing that.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#59477: Jul 16th 2020 at 9:07:58 AM

Admittedly I don't remember it being nearly this bad in Strange Journey. Persona is worse about it than SMT it seems.

Edited by Nikkolas on Jul 16th 2020 at 9:09:18 AM

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
asterism from the place I'm at Since: Apr, 2011 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#59479: Jul 16th 2020 at 9:15:01 AM

Persona 5 especially has a massive variety of ways for you to Not Die

Bewitching Eyes
Yumil Mad Archivist Since: Mar, 2016
Mad Archivist
#59480: Jul 16th 2020 at 9:15:46 AM

SMT redux also added the app to let the game keep on after your death.

I don't mind it too much in persona since the leader is built to be absolutely broken on purpose so it's not like the leader was an obvious weakpoint to any well-built strategy, but it still doesn't add all that much to the game when it does happen.

"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."
CybranGeneralSturm Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#59481: Jul 16th 2020 at 9:18:00 AM

@ Nikkolas: Leader Death = Instant Game Over is in effect for the hardest difficulty for Apocalypse, no app needed.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#59482: Jul 16th 2020 at 9:22:21 AM

Ad Really? Huh, I didn't notice. Admittedly I didn't make it too far in my Apocalypse difficulty run, only up to Shesha 1, but I was planning on making a full Apoc difficulty playthrough sometime soon.

I'll keep this in mind then. Thanks.

I still feel like I have died more in Persona 3 and 4 than any SMT. Could be recency bias, however. And i mean like total bullshit deaths here.

Edited by Nikkolas on Jul 16th 2020 at 9:24:25 AM

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#59483: Jul 16th 2020 at 9:45:37 AM

Party Leader death was the worst in Persona 3 because AI Party Members meant it was a gamble every time the Leader got knocked-down.

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#59484: Jul 16th 2020 at 10:08:41 AM

Yeah, the We Cannot Go On Without You in Persona has always been a bad mechanic. It's gotten progressively less bad from 3 to 4 to 5, and the "party members throw themselves in front of the MC to take a hit that would have killed them" mechanic in P5 is almost cool enough that it's worth the bad mechanic in the first place, but ultimately I think the series would be better off just removing it. It doesn't make things more interesting, just more annoying.

Edited by NativeJovian on Jul 16th 2020 at 1:08:40 PM

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#59485: Jul 16th 2020 at 11:43:15 AM

So given my boredom at dying over and over again I looked at the Difficulty Setting just to give me something to do and I discovered something I had not heard about.

In original Golden, upon beating the game, you could customize things like Money Won or Damage. This was a NG+ feature for no real reason. To my delight, I discovered Golden on PC lets you access all these things right from the start as it should have been.

This is a HUGE development. I'm fine with dealing less damage, I'm fine with taking more damage, but fucking don't make me run through Poverty Simulator again. I fucking hated never having any money for anything in the original game because I was playing on the highest difficulty. Well, now I can get normal money and actually buy items and shit.

Was this in P5? It definitely wasn't in P3. This is a titanic Pro in P4's favor and it should be in all video games ever.

Yumil Mad Archivist Since: Mar, 2016
Mad Archivist
#59486: Jul 16th 2020 at 11:46:50 AM

It wasn't in P3, yeah, and it I hated it too, can't disagree there, and it changed my life to find it in 4 too around Yukiko's dungeon.

5 didn't had it per se, but it made it less of a bother because demon negotiations and confident perks meant you could farm money by abusing negotiations, which was still not peak gameplay but massively alleviated it compared to 3.

And then royale massively buffed the overkill skill AND mementos and it reached the point that if you did your homework decently (collecting the stamps and giving them to Jose), you didn't have to try to be obscenely rich.

Edited by Yumil on Jul 16th 2020 at 8:47:48 PM

"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#59487: Jul 16th 2020 at 2:36:49 PM

Level 11 - well, I'm Level 11, Yosuke and Chie are 10 and 9 because they keep dying - on 4/22.

I remember being told when I first played Golden that 'you think Shadow Yukiko is tough here, in the original she had no Ice weakness." The SMT Wiki would seem to confirm this. What moron decided that? We'll make the first real boss of the game immune to the most fundamental mechanic of the battle system That makes sense.

But my point is, all the boss guides I can find are for OG Persona 4 and they all recommend Level 14-16 for her. I figure here I can probably get away with beating her at Level 12 maybe thanks to her actually having a weakness like she should have.

Yumil Mad Archivist Since: Mar, 2016
Mad Archivist
#59488: Jul 16th 2020 at 2:38:38 PM

my friend who's shit at persona (read: he refuses to even slightly bother with persona fusion mechanics unless he has no other choice to) managed to do it at that level so you should be good. The only incentive to grind higher than that to me was reaching 18 to get an Aeon persoan for marie for her rank 2.

"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#59489: Jul 17th 2020 at 6:01:46 AM

I finally won after something like 20 tries. Level 12 with Level 11 Yosuke and Level 10 Chie. I relented and used Tarunda. I really didn't think it was necessary but her Double Fangs move was killing me reliably so I gave in. It helps that, now I get normal money from battles, I can actually afford to buy Skill Cards. I was reluctant to use them because "what if i need one later?!" Well, don't have to worry about that anymore.

Of course, Chie and Yosuke were still dead when I won. I was thinking the last All Out Attack would do it but nope. Her Attack Reverted, she wiped out both of them with Burn to Ashes, and I was left to win with Bash doing like 45 damage. Fuck you game. I can probably make up that 667 EXP I lost from the boss in the next dungeon.... That's usaully how it works in RP Gs anyway.

I mainly remember this for P3 but I assume it's true for P4 as well, one reason the games get easier is later on your party can actually pull their weight in terms of support. Right now I have to do all the buffs, all the debuffs and all the damage. Chie can kinda help with Tarukaja but you gotta do a lot more than just raise attack on one person.

Edited by Nikkolas on Jul 17th 2020 at 6:05:48 AM

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#59490: Jul 17th 2020 at 6:53:07 AM

Those golden hands are no joke. Try to kill them if you can, that'll definitely make up for any experience lost from that boss fight.

The legend has returned.
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#59491: Jul 17th 2020 at 7:00:27 AM

Oh believe me, I know. Once you can reliably kill them with stronger physical skills and Power Charge and whatnot, you'll be drowning in EXP. That's how everyone is inevitably overleveled by the end going by my experience in my first run.

But right now, I got nothing to really take them out with. I can maybe beat one but that's about it.

Edited by Nikkolas on Jul 17th 2020 at 7:00:45 AM

CybranGeneralSturm Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#59492: Jul 17th 2020 at 7:06:26 AM

Watch out for later Gold hands because at some point they start packing counter, which will give them a chance to reflect your physical skills back. I recommend using a Physical-immune Persona to deal with those. Slime can get resist phys and through shuffle time trickery you can upgrade it to Null Physical.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#59493: Jul 17th 2020 at 7:53:35 AM

Well I'll definitely keep an eye on that. I feel like I finished Yukiko's dungeon faster this run than I did last time so that's good. I'm getting my S Link on.

Somebody told me because of how her S Link works, you can date Marie and another girl without getting the Valentine's Day beatdown or whatever would happen if you dated multiple other girls. I don't actually know what happens, just something bad and deserved.

Is that right? I wouldn't do this, just wondering. I'm building up er S Link and remembering how much I loved her.

Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#59494: Jul 17th 2020 at 7:55:36 AM

Yes. And you get a kiss from Margaret.

Seems supernatural women are exempt from Atlus's anti-polyamory stance for whatever reason.

Watch Symphogear
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#59495: Jul 17th 2020 at 8:04:22 AM

Do you get that kiss from Margaret if you complete her S Link?

I just abandoned her and Elizabeth's "summon Persona with x" quests because I didn't have resources to waste summoning Personas I might not have any S Links for. Maybe now I have actual money to make extended use of the Compendium, I could try to complete her S Link.

Also it isn't poly so much because you don't tell the girls you are with somebody else. What Yu does is just plain cheating. A poly path would be nice but it wouldn't be like how the games set up romantic relationships.

I doubt Hashino or whoever even knows what polyamory is.

Edited by Nikkolas on Jul 17th 2020 at 8:05:24 AM

Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#59496: Jul 17th 2020 at 8:04:51 AM

Yep, you get the kiss from her if you complete the link.

Watch Symphogear
Smasher from The 1830's, but without the racists (Don’t ask) Relationship Status: The best thing that ever happened to a bum like me
#59497: Jul 17th 2020 at 12:12:35 PM

Since it's been a while, here's another update on me playing P 4 G.

Naoto just joined, not sure where to put her in this casting. The band concert was fun, especially since it was animated and Teddie did a stage dive!. It's hard to keep everyone at around the same level. It's October 20th, so I'm transitioning between dungeons. But since exams just ended I should get a boost in a few characters, like the ones I have at 9. Here's my stats:

Levels

  • Yu/Fred: 52
  • Yosuke/Shaggy: 45
  • Chie/Velma: 47
  • Yukiko/Daphne: 49
  • Rise/Celebrity Guest: 52
  • Kanji/Scrappy-Doo: 46
  • Not sure who Naoto can be: 55
  • Teddie/Scooby-Doo: 47

Social Stats:

  • Knowledge, Expression, and Understanding: 5
  • Diligence and Courage: 4

Social Links:

  • Mystery Inc.: 8
  • Shaggy: MAX
  • Daphne: MAX, platonic
  • Margret: 7
  • Scrappy-Doo: 7
  • Dojima: MAX
  • Celebrity Guest: 6
  • Velma: 9
  • Nanako: MAX
  • Fox: 8
  • Athletes: 9
  • Saki's Brother: 3
  • Old Lady: 6
  • Young Mother: 6
  • Nurse: 8
  • Tower: 1
  • Scooby-Doo: 7
  • Ai: 5
  • Ayane: 7
  • Adachi: 5
  • Marie: Saving her for NG+, but 2

asterism from the place I'm at Since: Apr, 2011 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#59498: Jul 17th 2020 at 12:14:19 PM

Naoto is Velma and Chie is Scrappy

you can't deny it

Bewitching Eyes
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#59499: Jul 17th 2020 at 12:15:29 PM

Naoto has no choice but to be Film Flam. Thats the only position left.

One Strip! One Strip!
Smasher from The 1830's, but without the racists (Don’t ask) Relationship Status: The best thing that ever happened to a bum like me
#59500: Jul 17th 2020 at 1:49:52 PM

But Flim Flam is an Ethnic Scrappy and Naoto isn't based on any ethnic group.

Maybe the mayor or Sherriff Stone from Mystery Incorperated?


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