TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Persona series

Go To

Yumil Mad Archivist Since: Mar, 2016
Mad Archivist
#59301: Jul 12th 2020 at 5:27:51 AM

I mean, if you want to play the card of "reformist get forced out after a couple years", Makoto isn't a cop by the time the game happens, and, unless you want to refute the fiction presented and argue makoto will become just like the rest on...a basis I don't see, at the very least, then makoto isn't gonna be a cop for long after the game either.

Not that hard to get past that, all in all. Not realizing soon enough your choice of career is setting you up for disappointment doesn't sound like something that automatically makes you unworthy of love to me.

Edited by Yumil on Jul 12th 2020 at 3:03:16 PM

"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#59302: Jul 12th 2020 at 7:05:57 AM

Exactly.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#59303: Jul 12th 2020 at 7:21:02 AM

This ACAB for fictional characters is kind of a tiresome trend I'm seeing here and elsewhere. People also bring it up for Chie, pointing out her violent and abusive behavior in P 4 G would make her the absolute worst type of cop.

I just roll my eyes. Chie orMakoto wanting to be cops couldn't possibly be less important to me for evaluating their characters.

Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#59304: Jul 12th 2020 at 7:23:19 AM

[up] Your Bad faith arguments are why I can't take your dismissal of P5 seriously.

This is one of them.

Watch Symphogear
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#59305: Jul 12th 2020 at 7:27:20 AM

..."I don't condemn a fictional character for the real world fault of police" is a bad faith argument?

Yumil Mad Archivist Since: Mar, 2016
Mad Archivist
#59306: Jul 12th 2020 at 7:45:02 AM

... yeah, what the fuck, demongodofchaos ? How is that one specifically a bad faith argument ?

Also, even with all the critcisms I could level at p4 and how the cast is a bunch of unlikeable assholes... Chie's 16, for fuck sake. She has practically ten years to go before entering the police force. Human beings change a A LOT in that timeframe. Saying she wouldn't make a good cop because of how she act at 16 is baffling on several accounts.

Edited by Yumil on Jul 12th 2020 at 4:47:37 PM

"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."
MisterTambourineMan Unbeugsame Klinge from Under a tree Since: Jun, 2017 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
Unbeugsame Klinge
#59307: Jul 12th 2020 at 7:55:59 AM

Also, isn't the police force in Japan a pretty different beast from American police? Isn't it presumptuous to project American issues onto Japanese media?

Nach jeder Ebbe kommt die Flut.
RodimusMinor Professional Complainer Since: Oct, 2018
Professional Complainer
#59308: Jul 12th 2020 at 7:57:35 AM

There are protests in Japan (and worldwide) too regarding police abuse so I dunno about that.

Yumil Mad Archivist Since: Mar, 2016
Mad Archivist
#59309: Jul 12th 2020 at 8:01:31 AM

Well, the game DOES open up on two cops beating up and drugging a 16 years-old so the game doesn't think great of the police itself either.

But yeah, assuming the police is just as bad everywhere in the world as in the US right now and using that against makoto is a leap I'm not in any hurry to make.

(For clarity's sake, this doesn't mean police abuse doesn't exist outside of the US, merely that it's less widespread and broadly speaking, not guilty of as many crimes as grave as the ones brought up in america right now)

Edited by Yumil on Jul 12th 2020 at 5:04:36 PM

"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#59310: Jul 12th 2020 at 8:02:15 AM

Also i just thought of something. These games take place in Japan. No wait, that obvious fact isn't my point. I was reflecting on how Chie and Makoto wanting to enter traditionally 'masculine" lines of work like being a police officer is very empowering of them. To be a cop is dangerous and physically demanding, things "girls aren't supposed to do."

Of course the immediate counterargument is "why not be something else that is dangerous and physically demanding?" The obvious alternative would be military. It's something a lot of teens here in the US look to when graduating. I hung out with a lot of Junior ROTC kids back in high school all excited to join the Marines.

But then I remembered these games take place in Japan. So a line of work like being a cop but not a cop in Japan would be...I dunno. I know Japan has the JSDF but I don't think it's the same at all, especially not in terms of cultural appeal wherea kid in high school would aspire to join up.

But my main point is, you can easily see these girls aspiring to such a career type as very liberating of them and admirable.

EpicBleye drunk bunny from her bed being very eepy Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
drunk bunny
#59311: Jul 12th 2020 at 9:07:01 AM

ACAB and its important to recognize that depicting them positively in media is ultimately harmful as it glamorizes a culture filled with abuse and explicit racism by ignoring those two things for the sake of making up relatable people who are "the good cops"

that being said its not like Makoto is actually a cop yet (nor is Chie), and honestly it might be a good plot point in a Persona 5 Arena or some other spinoff that Chie/Makoto end up in a police force only to find that it's innately corrupt and they get ousted for trying to be the good cop, as happens in real life.

Dojima on the other hand has no excuse and as such is a bastard

"There's not a girl alive who wouldn't be happy being called cute." ~Tamamo-no-Mae
CybranGeneralSturm Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#59312: Jul 12th 2020 at 9:15:29 AM

Dojima is also out in the sticks and has never been playable thus far, so it generally boils down to personal opinion and whatnot.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#59313: Jul 12th 2020 at 10:07:53 AM

Already we can see how much the initial hype was bullshit. I remember people talking up Makoto as Best Girl. She's even voiced by the great Cherami Leigh. And now most recognize her as painfully boring and generic and she's easily the worst of the PT girls. She might be voiced by Leigh but she has precisely zero of the fire and charisma that somebody like Lucy has. People looked at her design and motorcycle and figured she'd be some aggressive no-nonsense badass. Lol, were we deceived. You want a woman who kicks ass, you go Haru.

Stop basing your opinions on what other people think.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
RodimusMinor Professional Complainer Since: Oct, 2018
Professional Complainer
#59314: Jul 12th 2020 at 11:01:49 AM

Hype Backlash is a thing, I suppose.

I'm glad that Royal gave Makoto her bike back as her Ultimate Persona. It's a really interesting idea beyond just being Stands.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#59315: Jul 12th 2020 at 11:05:44 AM

I should point out that a similar thing happened with Persona 4 as well. From roughly 2008-2012.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
RodimusMinor Professional Complainer Since: Oct, 2018
Professional Complainer
#59316: Jul 12th 2020 at 11:12:18 AM

I thought that was the period of time where everyone adored P4.

TPPR10 Craving for fish from up north Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Craving for fish
#59317: Jul 12th 2020 at 11:14:37 AM

One thing I find funny about Scramble in terms of this is that one character decides that the police force should dismantled altogether and PT are like "That isn't going to solve anything at all, no matter how corrupt they are".

Only sometimes posts
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#59318: Jul 12th 2020 at 11:14:57 AM

It was mostly after all the milking that people started to sour on P4. The overexposure and changing cultural mores around certain things led people to see it more negatively.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#59319: Jul 12th 2020 at 11:15:01 AM

Really interested in where P6 will go style-wise due to the new director. Has it even been announced who Hashino's successor will be yet, on that note?

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#59320: Jul 12th 2020 at 11:20:03 AM

I thought that was the period of time where everyone adored P4.

By the time of 2012; we had Golden, Arena, and the Anime. People were kind of tired of the milking.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#59321: Jul 12th 2020 at 11:21:18 AM

[up][up]I don't believe so. I don't think we know anything about P6.

RodimusMinor Professional Complainer Since: Oct, 2018
Professional Complainer
#59322: Jul 12th 2020 at 11:24:30 AM

We're not hearing about P6 for a while.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#59323: Jul 12th 2020 at 11:34:13 AM

As regards Makoto's quest for police reform, I must say I'm not liking her odds either. Even leaving aside how difficult it is in real life... did you see the size of that battalion that was perfectly blasé about waltzing into another universe to arrest some damn brats? From that I got the impression that like half the Tokyo PD in the Persona-verse aren't just being manipulated by Shido's conspiracy but are actively complicit in it. Up against that, Makoto wouldn't just have to worry about losing her job, but about ending up drowned in a ditch. tongue

Edited by HamburgerTime on Jul 12th 2020 at 1:34:29 PM

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#59324: Jul 12th 2020 at 11:36:21 AM

Sometimes a work of fiction can live up to the hype. I remember before I ever played any Persona game I was listening to those types. You know the ones. "Persona used to be good before it became dating simulators." I remember I made a thread on here and elsewhere about the JRPG with the best plot: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13671977460A05679100&page=1

This was 2013 and a few posters here and a lot of folks elsewhere said Persona 3 and 4 had the best writing in JRPG history. (man, 2013. A lifetime ago)

That hype did turn me off, if I'm honest. But I'm a fair man. Much like how I went into teh Mass Effect Trilogy highly skeptical of the Mass Effect 2 lovefest yet came away agreeing with the general notion it is a masterpiece for the ages, I came to agree with the general opinion Persona 4 really was that damned good when I finally played it.

But I also adore "the old school" like Persona 2 Innocent Sin. They have many similary appealing qualities when you look passed the superficial differences.

Edited by Nikkolas on Jul 12th 2020 at 11:38:22 AM

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#59325: Jul 12th 2020 at 11:39:27 AM

I try to not let my opinion be swayed by hype; it helps that I really don't interact much with the greater community, so I go in pretty fresh.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.

Total posts: 66,260
Top