yeah, our beginning is great. the fact it's a triumphant reprise of yaldabaoth makes both songs better as a whole.
Keep your faith/Throw away your mask has this problem that I found the actual use of it in game pretty underwhelming compared to how much it kicks ass listening to it on youtube.
Edited by Yumil on Jun 29th 2020 at 1:44:19 PM
"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."I dunno, while it does depends on days I tend to feel I prefer a lot of the others to battle for everyone's soul. But then again, the fact it's the velvet room theme but battle mode give it a lot more weight considering it's the most recurring theme of the series.
Edited by Yumil on Jun 29th 2020 at 1:48:45 PM
"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."When it comes to final bosses I'm torn on Battle For Everyone's Souls or the P2 final boss theme. They're both so good and satisfying and evoke that climactic feeling both P4 and P5 utterly failed to capture.
P2 and P3 understood that when you build a game around pursuing somebody like The Killer and Shido, then that confrontation is the thing everyone wants. Not a cup and not some lady who has nothing to do with fucking anything. Nobody spoilers Izanami, they spoiler the Killer because that's actually relevant to the game and experiencing it.
There's nothing like smacking down Nyarly at the end of Eternal Punishment because we had two games dedicated to making us want that more than anything else in the world.
Nyarlathotep: -panicked voice- Invincible, invincible!!!!!!!!!
Don't think so. Die.
Edited by Nikkolas on Jun 29th 2020 at 4:56:00 AM
nobody spoilers the killer anymore here any more than they spoiler izanami, nikk, sorry to break it to you. And sorry to be part of "nobody" again, but yaldabaoth is just as hype if not more than shido to me.
While Battle for everyone's soul certainly carries the most weight because it's the velvet room theme, and burn my dread last battle has that same idea by reusing the opening theme, I respect more a theme who doesn't reuse an existing music and still manages to explain everything about the scene it's played in just by listening to it. Erebus's theme is a really hard one to dethrone because it sums up the entire point of p3's epilogue in one song in a way other themes haven't done, although Our Beginning does come close,but it's bit too tied to the scene it's used.
The fog has a problem where it would probalby be able to, but the actual battle it's used for doesn't do it justice since it's izanami's first phase.
P2's final boss theme is nice but considering what's the competition, I'd rank it dead last, only ahead from the genesis because that theme is a big miss for me.
Edited by Yumil on Jun 29th 2020 at 2:01:40 PM
"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."A lot of people are still actually quite good about spoilering the killer's name unless it's like a dedicated discussion of the character.
I was talking about RPGS for years before I played P4 in 2017 and people wer very considerate about not mentioning the Killer's identity in regular P4 chat. In 2017 as I posted on here and many other forums, I went in totally blind.
And given Golden just came out on PC, this has only been renewed.
But it's no secret P4 has a "true" ending because it sucks and easily missable and nobody really likes it.
Edited by Nikkolas on Jun 29th 2020 at 5:06:30 AM
Honestly I prefer Maruki over Shido because its a battle between persona users and actually using rhat personas are capable of countless things, including psychicaly manifesting it separate from himself.
Unlike Akechi who is pathetic despite the story trying to make him out as more powerful than he really is.
Edited by OmegaRadiance on Jun 29th 2020 at 5:10:40 AM
Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.If we're talking remixes, I really like what the last Persona 3 film did with Burn My Dread Last Battle. The way it fades in and out and gets distorted as the battle continues.
Also I got a soft spot for Bloody Destiny, the PSP boss theme from 1.
I mean, sure it's a 45 second loop, but it's a good loop.
Edited by darkabomination on Jun 29th 2020 at 5:14:28 AM
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that's a bit of a non sequitur here. If nobody cares about the true ending, people wouldn't be discussing it. 'cept that they do. a lot.
You're also making a lot of false equivalences. Not spoiling the killer's identity is easy because you can swap his name by the killer and still hold a pretty in-depth conversation about him in plain sight. You can't really refer to the true ending and everything in it by an easy shorthand that doesn't inherently give it away.
The killer is also a lot more discussed because of the regular Draco in Leather Pants and Ron the Death Eater it attracts. by your logic, everyone cares only about akechi in 5, not shido, yaldy, or p5r's antagonist, despite all three being agreed to be much better, at least in terms of the characters not being drama-baits.
Assuming people don't spoiler the true ending because it suck is just projecting your biases onto other people.
p4's true ending also fits with the themes of the game so saying it sucks because it comes out of nowhere is amount to admitting the entire theme of the game wooshed over your head.
Edited by Yumil on Jun 29th 2020 at 2:17:10 PM
"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."Its point did not escape me. Just because something is badly done doesn't mean we're too stupid for saying it's badly done. Similarly, being discussed a lot doesn't mean people care about it. It just means they recognize it has some quality worthy of discussion, namely if it's terrible and deserves derision. An object of scorn is not something we "care" about.
Persona 4 has one target all game. Uno. Singular. Now, we get one twist and realize we were pursuing the wrong person but the Killer never ceases being the all-consuming objective of the story. And then we confront them and win.
And there's still some game left because...uh.....
And then you miss out on it because you have no idea what the fuck to do. You're just like "hn, there seems to be something more going on here..." That's it, no real prompting or guidance beyond that. So you look up a guide that tells you it was the Gas station Attendant all along and you do the real final dungeon adn the real final boss and you give exactly zero shits about any of it because it's so incredibly tacked on and you have already accomplished the objective the entire game was about.
The game and its purposes ended with the Killer. Izanami is not going to win any "good final boss" awards any time soon, even from P4 fans like myself. The final boss of a video game should bring catharsis. Nobody felt satisfaction from fighting Izanami because she's introduced in the last hour of a 80 hour video game.
Edited by Nikkolas on Jun 29th 2020 at 5:29:07 AM
May I ask what you dislike about it in particular? I can see why it being hard to get may be a cause for annoyance, but as said already, it does tie into the themes if the game. Of course that doesn't mean something is actually good, but still. Also, bit of an assumption to say nobody likes it. I have seen more than a few complaints saying it is a bit too saccharine, but nothing much beyond that.
Don't catch you slippin' now.![]()
See, here's the thing : the ensemble of the persona 4 fandom is not you or people who think like you.
I'm not as much of a fan of p4 than of the other two modern personas, but I still easily fit under the label, and I care about the true ending. About as much if not more than just the killer. Izanami can have her "good final boss" award anytime she asks it to me.
You keep making those grand statements like the community of p4 thinks like you but you can't know that. Even if all discussion online about the game agreed with you (which it doesn't), the fact that the people on internet talking about a game still only represent a fraction of the game community still wouldn't make it conclusive.
Saying that p4 has one target and persisting IS missing the point of the game. The killer was always only half of the mystery. There's a tv world over here and that's also a mystery the game does call a fair deal of attention to it, because it's the entire modus operandi of the killer. Throwing people into T Vs isn't some kind of banal everyday accident that doesn't merit attention.
You might have only been interested in catching the killer yourself without caring for his method, but saying that's all of the plot of p4 is about is factually not true. p4's plot is about finding the truth and as long as the whole truth isn't out, the game isn't over.
and, again, the fact the gas attendant is tacked on is part of p4's recurring motif that the truth is hidden behind several layers of things that look like the truth. You want to call the game over, but you've just bought into the easier explanation. Shitting on the true ending for that feels like being mad at the game for playing you.
Now if your point is that it's a bad theme or that p4 botches it pretty bad (something I would agree with), that'd be something else. but that's not your point here. You're just getting very nitpicky about one specific instance of the game's entire shtick of hiding the truth with little buildup behind several layers of fake-outs that are more developed than the actual truth.
Edited by Yumil on Jun 29th 2020 at 2:42:01 PM
"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."![]()
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The ending itself is fine. Inaba isn't going to be swallowed up by encroaching capitalism, Kanji has a great new look we'll never see again, Marie is on the weather channel - it's all very sweet.
But my problem is entirely with Izanami who is the mastermind behind it all and it just doesn't work. I don't care about this character. There was one antagonist I cared about because the game made me care for dozens of hours. And then they were like "hold on, here's the real villain!" And I'm like "....what? The game is over. What are you doing?" If they had ever talked more about "how is the Killer able to do what they are doing? Maybe we should look more into the why and how and not just the who" but they never do outside of maybe one line here or there. The Killer and stopping them is the goal all game.
But then there's a new villain at the very VERY end and it's just...too much, too late and not given enough focus before this. Izanami is Zemus; technically behind everything all along but Golbez is all anybody really liked and this "true mastermind" is very unsatisfying.
The fact that it's obtuse and obscure to even get this ending doesn't help, either.
Edited by Nikkolas on Jun 29th 2020 at 5:45:47 AM
Typically, the greater more powerful eldritch big bad is less compelling than the human villains.
Granted, i personally think Yaldabaoth is the best one among them, and is relatively equal to Shido.
"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"![]()
It's funny that you say that the game doesn't do anything to hint at the real villain aside from two throwaway lines. Cause I'm playing the game right now and I have to wonder if we're playing the same game. Izanami is literally introduced into the story before the killer is.
Before the murders are even brought into the equation, the protag has that dream where he meets izanami and drops some cryptic hints about the rest of the plot. Zemus never had the luxury of a scene like that.
Even after that, the group regularly asks a lot of questions about the tv world, is just so happens that the only person they can ask those is Teddie and Teddie is just as lost as them.
The upside of tracking a killer is that there's a lot of things you can try to deduce. in this case, how his method works, who will be the next victim and how to prevent it. But the motive is also brought up, and because the game itself notes that there's no way to figure it besides asking it to the culprit, that aspect of him isn't brought up as much by the plot.
Which is very similar to what happens to the questions about the tv world. You can't focus on them too much because you won't get answers for most of the game so you'd just be repeating the same questions over and over, and that'd be boring.
Now you may say that the game failed at making you care about the "why" of the tv world, and that's fair, I'm not going to change your appreciation of the game with words, but saying the game didn't try feels disingenuous at best.
You have the same problem for p5 like shido is the only antagonist that matter, and it's even less valid because the game is never about "One target. Uno."
For the first five palaces, so almost for the two thirds of the game, the point of p5 isn't "get back at shido, the man who ruined the protag's life". It's about helping people and taking down people who abuse the system to crush people.
Shido doesn't enter the picture until his own palace, and you don't get the sense of a conspiracy until the end of the fifth palace.
P5 was never about taking down one specific conspiracy and be done with it. The conspiracy hijacks the routine of the phantom thieves that had no particular long-term goal.
Oh sure, there are some very late revelations that most of your previous targets were all connected to him in some way, but that's even less than what you get on p4 about Izanami, EXACTLY the same process of making the big shiny antagonist be the man behind the man all along that you reject so much, yet you accept that one just fine.
Society's issues and the deadly sins theming are a much more prevalent connecting thread for most of the game than Shido is, so the only reason shido would HAVE to be the final boss would be if there's no way to escalate from the corrupt politician. Except there is. Tackling the biggest issue of the public of refusing to take action themselves and entrust everything to a messiah figure.
It fits a lot more than you're willing to give it credit for, yet you lump it with izanami.
Edited by Yumil on Jun 29th 2020 at 3:11:02 PM
"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."

It's also used for yu kicking the ass of izanami in the anime.
"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."