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ashlay Since: Apr, 2011
#58651: Jun 21st 2020 at 8:54:19 PM

[up]You're not supposed to sympathize with him, you're supposed to sympathize with Haru.

RodimusMinor Professional Complainer Since: Oct, 2018
Professional Complainer
#58652: Jun 21st 2020 at 8:59:04 PM

One of the first things we learn about Haru's dad is that he's okay with handing her off to a rapist.

Like.

There's really nowhere to go after that.

Edited by RodimusMinor on Jun 21st 2020 at 11:59:07 AM

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#58653: Jun 21st 2020 at 9:07:27 PM

IDK about Royal but I don't think the original wanted you to feel bad for Okumura necessarily, and if it did, it was only really that he died in such an awful way. It was enough for me to pity him, but I didn't mourn him because yeah he was a shitty person.

Smasher from The 1830's, but without the racists (Don’t ask) Relationship Status: The best thing that ever happened to a bum like me
#58654: Jun 21st 2020 at 9:20:12 PM

He is meant to be seen as more sympathetic than Kamoshida, Madarame, Kaneshiro, and Shido. (Though Madarame is the actual most sympathetic of the 5 male targets, but only though Yusuke's Confidant do we see that.)

Edited by Smasher on Jun 21st 2020 at 12:26:26 PM

RodimusMinor Professional Complainer Since: Oct, 2018
Professional Complainer
#58655: Jun 21st 2020 at 9:28:44 PM

Says who?

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#58656: Jun 21st 2020 at 9:44:03 PM

Isn't "Okumura is worse in Royal" about how his fight was made annoyingly arbitrarily harder?

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#58657: Jun 21st 2020 at 9:46:18 PM

I believe so yes.

Whatever complaints he’s received in Royal has more to do with gameplay than anything related to the story.

Edited by slimcoder on Jun 21st 2020 at 9:47:15 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#58658: Jun 21st 2020 at 9:49:23 PM

Not gonna lie, the prick he tries to have Haru marry is a much more repulsive character.

The legend has returned.
Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#58659: Jun 21st 2020 at 9:56:16 PM

Honestly should have been a mementos Target in Haru's Confidant, if not that then just a normal request.

Maybe it would have been too much of a Kamoshida retread, though.

Watch Symphogear
Smasher from The 1830's, but without the racists (Don’t ask) Relationship Status: The best thing that ever happened to a bum like me
#58660: Jun 21st 2020 at 10:18:10 PM

Tsukasa also should have been a Mementos target like in the anime.

As for why I say Okumura was worse in Royal, I have two words: Cognitive Haru.

Edited by Smasher on Jun 21st 2020 at 1:26:56 PM

magnum12 Since: Aug, 2009
#58661: Jun 22nd 2020 at 12:19:54 AM

Cognitive Haru is essentially Okumura doesn’t actually love his daughter.

The naysayers saying he was 100% unsympathetic in Vanilla were completely right about him.

Didn’t have a shred of sympathy for his death after that. Kick The Son Of A Bitch on Akechi’s part.

OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#58662: Jun 22nd 2020 at 12:41:01 AM

Whats weird is that the anime which they usually crib new ideas for the games from like the one girl who showed uo in P4 anime added to Golden or Angel Lucifer to go with Alcor being benign From the Lucifer hugging Satan to death, actually emphasizes the man loved his father despite his issues with him. So you'd think they add that since the new editions were generally good in that hot mess of a de-make adaptation.

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#58663: Jun 22nd 2020 at 3:25:44 AM

Well, at least Royal clarified that he was a Piece of shit. He didn't deserve to die for it mind you, but I don't think anyone but Haru is going to miss him.

Its...a very weird type of cognitive dissonance. The audience has no reason to mourn Okumura at all, but because he's Haru's father she obviously has to feel bad for what happened to him...its weird.

Granted, I guess it's meant to be like King Moron in P4; the group agrees that he was an asshole, but he didn't deserve what happened to him.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#58664: Jun 22nd 2020 at 4:16:38 AM

King Moron was just a jerk teacher, but he had his pet the dog moments off camera.

Okumura was a public health menace.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Yumil Mad Archivist Since: Mar, 2016
Mad Archivist
#58665: Jun 22nd 2020 at 4:45:31 AM

Ashlay puts it perfectly in top of the page: you're not supposed to feel bad for okumura, you're supposed to feel bad for Haru for losing her father figure, as awful of a human being as he might have been.

"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#58666: Jun 22nd 2020 at 4:52:57 AM

That kind of puts a damper on it. I don't feel bad for Haru, because her life will ultimately be better without her father in it...

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Jun 22nd 2020 at 7:53:12 AM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
MisterTambourineMan Unbeugsame Klinge from Under a tree Since: Jun, 2017 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
Unbeugsame Klinge
#58667: Jun 22nd 2020 at 4:54:24 AM

The anime, from what I've heard, did try to make Okumura more sympathetic by showing that he used to be a better father and having him actually repenting after getting beaten.

Royal doubled down on his assholery.

Nach jeder Ebbe kommt die Flut.
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#58668: Jun 22nd 2020 at 5:37:20 AM

I haven't played Royal, but OG Okumura at least had a Freudian Excuse where he'd grown up poor and so became obsessed with wealth as an adult. It's not much, but it's more than any of the other targets get.

Or rather, more than any of the other male targets get, as was mentioned above. I'd forgotten that the only two targets that get are allowed to get redeemed are the ladies. Granted, Futaba hasn't actually done anything wrong and is asking for your help, but Sae is 100% unrepentantly part of the corrupt system the Phantom Thieves are supposedly fighting against, but gets a pass because, uh...

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#58669: Jun 22nd 2020 at 5:38:59 AM

Because her heart's in the right place, which is more than can be said for every other law enforcement official in the cast.

The legend has returned.
Karxrida from Eureka, the Forbidden Land Since: May, 2012 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#58670: Jun 22nd 2020 at 5:43:04 AM

Plus the gang needs her help to trick Akechi.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#58671: Jun 22nd 2020 at 5:59:50 AM

Sae has a pretty big FE too if you think a bit about the Japan of the game. It's more based on real world knowledge than the game itself, admittedly.

Sae is being argued about elsewhere and I said this as a way to explain her sympathetically:

Sae: Japan has a real problem with sexism and a woman in a position of power and visibility has a disgusting amount of pressure placed upon her. Results are all that matter and if she wishes to not be crushed under the weight of an entrenched patriarchy that actively wants to see her fail, she has to do anything and everything to prove she belongs here. All while supporting a sister who is still in school.

I have many criticisms of P5 but Sae is not one of them.

OTOH, lots of comparisonsto Ace Attorney were made, Sae being analogous to Edgeworth, and we def see far more of Edgeworth's redemption even in AA 1 than we do for Sae. Sae's reasoning for how she ended up here is mostly inferred and based on a couple of short scenes.

Also it depends a lot on how you interpret her Palace. Did she actively rig cases or was that just representing the overall system? How complicit was she in the corruption of the system and how much was she a victim?

Again, P5 explains all of this poorly and vaguely sowe are left to speculate.

Edited by Nikkolas on Jun 22nd 2020 at 6:02:41 AM

MisterTambourineMan Unbeugsame Klinge from Under a tree Since: Jun, 2017 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
Unbeugsame Klinge
#58672: Jun 22nd 2020 at 6:23:48 AM

[up] Except that that view of Sae is incompatible with the game's Freudian Excuse Is No Excuse stance. Most of the other targets try to say that Society Is to Blame only to be told off for trying to escape blame.

Nach jeder Ebbe kommt die Flut.
Cross (Don’t ask)
#58673: Jun 22nd 2020 at 6:34:42 AM

Probably because they're trying to escape blame.

dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#58674: Jun 22nd 2020 at 7:10:35 AM

So, Persona 4 Golden is now available on Steam.

I never actually played P4, even though I watched the anime and watched/read two walkthroughs (one on You Tube and another on lparchive), so I am considering getting this one.

Buuuuut, I have to ask: Is P4:Golden just P4 but more, or is it a different game and story?

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#58675: Jun 22nd 2020 at 7:13:40 AM

P4 Golden is P4 but more, yeah.

It adds some characters, a dungeon, 2 endings and a bunch of other stuff but at the end of the day its still P4.


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