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NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#58226: May 20th 2020 at 8:20:07 AM

Yes, the problem with that scenario is that the girls are legitimately bad at cooking.

That's definitely the most important thing to focus on.

All of Yosuke's behavior is justified by this.

Jesus Christ.

Edited by NativeJovian on May 20th 2020 at 11:20:27 AM

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Cosplaythief Since: Jun, 2013
#58227: May 20th 2020 at 8:21:10 AM

I have zero sympathy for the girls and their cooking because when you are a bad cook, push your stupid bad food unto others and don't have the decency of taste it your damn self before you do (and then get angry if you're called out on being a bad cook) then you suck.

God, lethal chef is a trope I hate so much, along with female on male violence and perverted best friend.

OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#58228: May 20th 2020 at 8:22:40 AM

No it's the fact the girls themselves don't actually try to improve either, like the fact they still refuse to taste test their food, or just shove random crap into it. That's the point. Yosuke doesn't improve. The Girls don't improve.

And those two(Mostly Chie) will lash out at ALL THE GUYS every time.

If neither side improves, then it's a cycle of repetition both sides perpetuate.

And it's not hard! Naoto makes a point of this by doing the most basic stuff!

Edited by OmegaRadiance on May 20th 2020 at 8:23:56 AM

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#58229: May 20th 2020 at 8:23:34 AM

There's a lot of Anime hate here huh...

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Cosplaythief Since: Jun, 2013
#58230: May 20th 2020 at 8:26:32 AM

I actually really like anime. But you have to admit some anime tropes are in great need of retirement. Time pass and my tolerance for some things changes.

Edited by Cosplaythief on May 20th 2020 at 11:30:03 AM

CybranGeneralSturm Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#58231: May 20th 2020 at 8:27:23 AM

Yeah, but that's a by-product of Persona 4's humor being centered around some very dated anime cliches that simply don't hold up today, especially in North America. Bizarrely enough, I kinda want Persona 4 to get remade precisely to cut out the humor.

Edited by CybranGeneralSturm on May 20th 2020 at 8:31:27 AM

OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#58232: May 20th 2020 at 8:28:27 AM

Considering the amount of anime I love it's really the tired tropes that frustrate me.

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#58233: May 20th 2020 at 8:29:56 AM

So I just want to throw out a reminder that Persona 4 came out in 2008.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#58234: May 20th 2020 at 8:31:18 AM

It was pretty tired in no time even at that point.

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#58235: May 20th 2020 at 8:32:10 AM

No it wasn't, because a lot of Anime were still centered around that type of humor at the time.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
RodimusMinor Professional Complainer Since: Oct, 2018
Professional Complainer
#58236: May 20th 2020 at 8:34:09 AM

"We're bad at cooking"

"I guilted these two women into wearing swimsuits for my own indulgence and constantly mock a close friend for his sexuality"

Can someone help me? These two statements look exactly the same and I can't parse through them.

Edited by RodimusMinor on May 20th 2020 at 11:34:19 AM

Cosplaythief Since: Jun, 2013
#58237: May 20th 2020 at 8:36:02 AM

I don't think you can remake persona 4 without the high school humor tropes. Won't it just feel like something else?

It's kind of weird because I like how the P4 gang feels overall (they come off less like business partners like P3 or P5) yet the things I dislike, I really dislike.

Maybe they can make the character development actually be included in the plot.

OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#58238: May 20th 2020 at 8:38:05 AM

? People were complaining about that kind of stuff even then. It just wasn't as vocal or large.

[up]x2 It's not just bad at cooking. They're food is given the nauseous treatment and once even killed a Shadow when it was combined with Fuuka's cooking. They don't add poisonous fumes exuding out of food for nothing. Like this stuff will make you sick if you eat too much of it.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on May 20th 2020 at 8:44:05 AM

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#58239: May 20th 2020 at 8:40:31 AM

What I mean is that it was common for Japanese media to have that type of humor for that time period regardless of how people felt.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
PhoenixAct Since: Feb, 2011
#58240: May 20th 2020 at 8:41:27 AM

No it's the fact the girls themselves don't actually try to improve either, like the fact they still refuse to taste test their food, or just shove random crap into it.

I mean, that's not true, at least in regards to Yukiko. Yukiko trying to improve her cooking comes up as part of her social link, and even if you don't do her SL she still improves, in that her cooking late game is just bland rather than outright disgusting.

In Golden she even eventually cooks something that offers full SP replenishment.

CybranGeneralSturm Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#58241: May 20th 2020 at 8:42:00 AM

You can cut out the high school humor tropes and put more emphasis on the murder mystery part by upping the body count and/or even throwing in a few more red herring suspects like Mitsuo. Hell, maybe even have multiple victims to save and at least one situation where no matter how well you plan things out, someone will get left behind in the TV world and get slaughtered by Shadows.

OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#58242: May 20th 2020 at 8:43:31 AM

Which to me points to a problem with the spinoffs that Yukiko regresses Or rather Yu never did her Social Link just like he did no one elses cause they even made a joke out of her food still being aweful and the cooks have to be there helping her to make something edible.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on May 20th 2020 at 8:45:04 AM

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
RodimusMinor Professional Complainer Since: Oct, 2018
Professional Complainer
#58243: May 20th 2020 at 8:45:56 AM

One's an anime gag and the other is some shithead constantly abusing Kanji for his struggles with his sexuality.

Like, they aren't comparable. At all.

OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#58244: May 20th 2020 at 8:47:32 AM

EW GAY is itself an anime trope. And a pretty bad one too boot.

One that still gets done with transexual characrers that still look like men even today.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on May 20th 2020 at 8:51:21 AM

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#58245: May 20th 2020 at 8:47:42 AM

[up][up][up][up] Persona 4 is meant to be a bit more upbeat, focusing on the mystery kind of takes away from that.

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on May 20th 2020 at 11:48:15 AM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#58246: May 20th 2020 at 8:48:00 AM

No it's the fact the girls themselves don't actually try to improve either
The girls do, in fact, try to improve. There's a whole scene about it later, where they've been taking lessons from the cook at Yukiko's inn, and so they hang out at Yu's house to give the whole "making food" thing another shot on their own. And their results are better! Not great, but better than their first attempt. The food goes from "literally inedible" to "merely bad" (on Chie's part) and "somehow entirely tasteless" (from Yukiko).

In any case, you're completely missing the point I was making, which is that Yosuke is an asshole for making his friends feel bad. The fact that their cooking is actually terrible isn't the point and I never criticized Yosuke for not liking their cooking. I criticized him for acting like an entitled chauvinist prick for expecting the girls to be good cooks (because they're girls) and to serve him delicious food (because he's a boy). I criticized him for being a poisonous asshole who repeatedly cuts down his friends by constantly taking things they hate about themselves and throwing it back in their face. Instead of lifting his friends up and helping them get through things that bother them, he never lets them live it down and shames them for trying.

Yosuke is a bad person and a terrible friend, and your response was to leap to his defense by blaming the girls for his behavior.

And those two(Mostly Chie) will lash out at ALL THE GUYS every time.
I will say that this annoyed me as well. I wanted an option for "step in and salvage this situation" so bad everytime they started leaning into the Wacky Anime Hijinks bullshit, and the game never gives you one. It has the effect of making Yu an asshole by proxy by never telling Yosuke to stop being such a jackass, and for idly standing by and watching his friends flail around wildly when he could offer his help and show them how to improve.

Edited by NativeJovian on May 20th 2020 at 11:51:45 AM

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
RodimusMinor Professional Complainer Since: Oct, 2018
Professional Complainer
#58247: May 20th 2020 at 8:48:28 AM

[up][up][up]And it's deplorable. I'm not sure where you're coming from equating the two.

Edited by RodimusMinor on May 20th 2020 at 11:49:12 AM

OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#58248: May 20th 2020 at 8:50:46 AM

Yeah he assumes they can cook, because Japan still believes in those gender roles. It's why the Feminine Girl is a Lethal Chef became a gag in the first place. It subverts the targets expectations.

[up] They're both terrible anime tropes. Lethal Chef isn't entertaining with people who are bad at cooking, and how it has to always be women, especially feminine ones, and the other is terrible towards gay/transgender men.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on May 20th 2020 at 8:55:57 AM

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
Cosplaythief Since: Jun, 2013
#58249: May 20th 2020 at 8:54:26 AM

I don't know about other people but no one is saying "Yosuke is good" so I just thought we were accepting Native Jovian and Rodimus Minor's Yosuke hatred and were moving the conversation on other subjects?

Like tired anime tropes.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#58250: May 20th 2020 at 8:56:45 AM

Persona itself is a very Japanese minded game. So Values Dissonance be hittin hard you know.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.

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