TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Persona series

Go To

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#57801: Apr 7th 2020 at 4:11:57 AM

I got part-way in before realizing it's nothing new in term of Persona 5 critique. Every issue you could have with that game we've already gone over.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#57802: Apr 7th 2020 at 4:45:10 AM

I guess that's fair enough, I just thought it was more succint and better expressed than most other critiques I've read that I thought it was worth sharing, but otherwise feel free to move on I suppose.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Apr 7th 2020 at 7:47:53 AM

Kakuzan Let memes die. Kill them, if you have to. from Knock knock, open up the door, it's real. Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Let memes die. Kill them, if you have to.
#57803: Apr 7th 2020 at 6:05:08 AM

I've read through most of it, and I can't say I found too much of anything newly expressed aside from maybe the point of a scene having an arc. I've heard the complaint about repetition before, and while I can somewhat understand it, I feel that both the Film Crit Hulk and others sort of miss the why part.

Going back to the point of a scene having an arc, that is something more important in a movie than other mediums since movies are often shorter. For that reason, scenes do need to have a point. But for a video game of this length and width concepts that may be unfamiliar to some people, repetition serves a point since it helps people to remember. Also, the texts you get serve the purpose of pushing you towards actually doing the Palace.

And then there seems to be a slight misunderstanding since they claim that 90% of the students were being blackmailed. Even if that wasn't a gross exaggeration that misses the point of that arc, I'm not entirely sure if what was done is blackmail bas much as coercion, but that may be pedantic. I'm also a but sick how people keep talking about the cartoonish villainly. They say that they are talking about the villains' civilian identity as well, but that seems a bit off since they only person who doesn't put on some sort of mask at anytime would be Kaneshiro. All the others put on facades towards the general public at one point or another. There are a few other points I'd like to make, but this post is long enough already.

Edited by Kakuzan on Apr 7th 2020 at 9:28:55 AM

Don't catch you slippin' now.
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#57804: Apr 7th 2020 at 6:34:44 AM

t. But for a video game of this length and width concepts that may be unfamiliar to some people, repetition serves a point since it helps people to remember.

I think this is a YMMV on how much repetition is "too much" even for that purpose. For me, it was definitely way too much and I felt it needlessly bloated the script. There are plenty of games that do this just fine without resorting to that.

Also, he's just one of the villains, but I don't think Kamoshida really tries to put up a façade. Most people seem to be aware he's pretty terrible, they just don't bother doing anything about it.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Apr 7th 2020 at 9:40:11 AM

Kakuzan Let memes die. Kill them, if you have to. from Knock knock, open up the door, it's real. Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Let memes die. Kill them, if you have to.
#57805: Apr 7th 2020 at 6:40:12 AM

Kamoshida isn't like that towards all or even most. It is often seen how the other students and teachers think he is just an average upstanding nice teacher, and Kawakami mentioned how he just seemed normal. I mean, if he was always transparent about being awful, he wouldn't have pretended to feel bad when be spiked Mashima. Yeah, a certain amount of people outside of the volleyball team do know as Mashima said, but it is clear that not everyone knew. As for Okumura, it is fair to say that he doesn't put on a facade, but that stems mostly from how little screentime he has.

Don't catch you slippin' now.
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#57806: Apr 7th 2020 at 6:41:54 AM

It's possible that I'm misremembering, but I seem to recall most of the students being aware of how the sports teams under Kamoshida were treated. If that's not the case, then fair enough.

Kakuzan Let memes die. Kill them, if you have to. from Knock knock, open up the door, it's real. Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Let memes die. Kill them, if you have to.
#57807: Apr 7th 2020 at 6:53:49 AM

Most of the students thought they were rumors. I finished Kamoshida's Place two days ago, and while there were people who had suspicions or worries by being in proximity to those who were being abused, most of the school is presented as being oblivious.

Edit: Besides, Ryuji himself was abused by him, and even he didn't know the depths of Kamoshida's abuses.

Edited by Kakuzan on Apr 7th 2020 at 9:59:01 AM

Don't catch you slippin' now.
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#57808: Apr 7th 2020 at 6:54:40 AM

[up] I personally felt that most students WANTED them to be rumors if you catch my meaning.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#57809: Apr 7th 2020 at 8:21:24 AM

A lot of this critic pieces aren't even taking P 5 R into account, from what I recall.

The repetition part isn't fixed, but the way its conveyed is generally much smoother, with a better translation, and the Dungeons themselves are just better overall in terms of just getting from the beginning to the end, thanks to near instant load times, enhanced mechanics and more. The SL bonus stats are also reworked and redone considerably, including Ohya's.

Watch Symphogear
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#57810: Apr 7th 2020 at 8:24:42 AM

A lot of this critic pieces aren't even taking P 5 R into account, from what I recall.

P 5 R only recently came out in the west so that's probably why. Most people don't look up spoilers or major changes from the japanese release. It's going to take a while before Royal is the version most people will have played and the consensus around the game shifts accordingly.

Also, out of curiosity, what's different in Ohya's confidant this time? I think we all know the perks were pretty useless in vanilla P5.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Apr 7th 2020 at 11:33:16 AM

asterism from the place I'm at Since: Apr, 2011 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#57811: Apr 7th 2020 at 8:35:00 AM

I know at least two of the more 'useless' skills were changed, idk about Ohya's yet. Ryuji's instant kill now gives money and exp, and Ann can make an enemy Shadow skip their turn sometimes.

Edited by asterism on Apr 7th 2020 at 3:35:17 PM

Bewitching Eyes
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#57812: Apr 7th 2020 at 8:36:40 AM

>Ryuji's instant kill now gives money and exp

Is it 100% of the money and exp you'd get regularly or is it like a percentage? Even if not that does sound pretty good.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Apr 7th 2020 at 11:36:54 AM

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#57813: Apr 7th 2020 at 8:46:38 AM

That Hulk piece was very good. I do have to say I'm not sure the villains being blatantly evil was a weakness, though. In recent years it's become quite apparent, if you ask me, that the worst people in real life aren't particularly nuanced at all, and people still are excellent at ignoring that. Jimmy Savile raped literally hundreds of women and somehow was still able to conceal it until after he died. Any number of obviously corrupt politicians get elected because "I'd rather have a crook from Our Side than a decent person from The Other Side." And so on.

Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#57814: Apr 7th 2020 at 8:49:12 AM

The villains being blatantly evil is kinda the point, since they are the exaggerated versions of themselves. Thats how Shadows were in 4, but they were for relatively good people. Where with most of P5, the shadows were of assholes in power.

Watch Symphogear
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#57815: Apr 7th 2020 at 8:51:44 AM

[up][up]I think the argument made is usually that sometimes being strictly realistic is not as important as telling an interesting story or making a more interesting character. I agree that in real life people can just be obscenely awful, but it doesn't always make for something interesting to read about.

And even in real life, these people usually have some reasons that led to them being the way they are even if it doesn't justify their actions, and they can have nuance, it just doesn't really mean they become more sympathetic. P5 itself understands this and suggests some motivations for the villains, like Kamoshida being mournful about being a faded star with no further athletic prospects, which led him to using his abuse to make himself feel more powerful. It doesn't make him particularly sympathetic but it does humanize him slightly by explaining some of the reasons why he became an abuser.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Apr 7th 2020 at 11:58:11 AM

RodimusMinor Professional Complainer Since: Oct, 2018
Professional Complainer
#57816: Apr 7th 2020 at 8:56:25 AM

For me the blatant, puppy kicking evil of the antagonists wasn't a problem. I'm with Hamburger Time in thinking it was a decent fit.

Edited by RodimusMinor on Apr 7th 2020 at 11:56:35 AM

asterism from the place I'm at Since: Apr, 2011 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#57817: Apr 7th 2020 at 8:57:45 AM

Non-Shadow Madarame isn't blatantly evil at all. Part of the difficulty of his arc is trying to convince Yusuke he's a terrible person.

Bewitching Eyes
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#57818: Apr 7th 2020 at 9:04:22 AM

Well, it depends on who you ask; having caricature villains who are puppy kicking evil can feel like they have no nuance and are therefore, lacking any interesting traits.

It's why Shido isn't as popular as say, Adachi; he's not as fleshed out or nuanced, so people don't feel the need to talk about him as a result and he can come off as one-dimensional.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
RodimusMinor Professional Complainer Since: Oct, 2018
Professional Complainer
#57819: Apr 7th 2020 at 9:07:46 AM

Shido is kind of lame but I like the villains for the crimes they commit and the injustices they represent, taking them down a peg and building up the legend of the Phantom Thieves.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#57820: Apr 7th 2020 at 9:10:20 AM

I can't tell if Shido obviously being the guy who got Joker in trouble was a flub or intentional. It feels like it should be intentional but for some reason the game tries to build it up and it takes the Phantom Thieves a real long time to figure out.

RodimusMinor Professional Complainer Since: Oct, 2018
Professional Complainer
#57821: Apr 7th 2020 at 9:13:57 AM

Actually yeah Shido being personally responsible for what happened to Joker was lame.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#57822: Apr 7th 2020 at 9:19:10 AM

To be fair, that particular fact being so coincidental is lampshaded by everyone once they realize it.

We can assume Yaldaboth might have have a hand in that.

One Strip! One Strip!
OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#57823: Apr 7th 2020 at 9:20:49 AM

No way he didn't plan that.

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#57824: Apr 7th 2020 at 9:32:33 AM

Persona hasn't really had a good cast of villains since P2. Nobody likes P3 because of Strega; in fact when I first played it, I recall a lot of people saying they forgot Strega was even in the game.

Somebody mentioned people liking Adachi over Shido. We can see the same with Akechi being the only villain anybody likes in P5. Giving the bad guys some substance or likable traits is a big help.

Most of the bad guys were just generic and many of them, like the Principal and SIU director, literally did not need to exist.

Edited by Nikkolas on Apr 7th 2020 at 9:36:21 AM

darkabomination Since: Mar, 2012
#57825: Apr 7th 2020 at 9:33:25 AM

You can lampshade all you want, but pointing out a trope and using it without much purpose aren't mutually exclusive.

5 to me feels like style over substance. Like they came up with these cool ideas, and only later put them into practice. Like, it bugs me they never really explain why they're all going with the thief archetype. Like, yes it makes sense from a story perspective, but why/how do the characters come up with that? Did they all really just follow what Morgana told them to do, just because?

In 3, your Persona group already existed before you even show up. And in 4, the investigation team is made on the fly and everyone goes with it. But why Thieves?


Total posts: 66,260
Top