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Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
asterism from the place I'm at Since: Apr, 2011 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#57027: Oct 12th 2019 at 2:01:56 AM

I swear, if Akechi ends up being a gay option, I'm going to find that monkey's paw and set fire to it.

Bewitching Eyes
Hashil Since: Aug, 2010
#57028: Oct 12th 2019 at 7:45:39 AM

Do people still think that will ever be a thing in Persona again

Gays are for laughing at in this franchise

And baiting people still naive enough to think they give a shit

Edited by Hashil on Oct 12th 2019 at 8:46:54 AM

CybranGeneralSturm Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#57029: Oct 12th 2019 at 7:46:54 AM

[up] No, that's only whenever that bugger Hashino gets involved.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#57030: Oct 12th 2019 at 7:51:45 AM

Golden didn't have a gay option despite Hashino's lack of involvement

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#57031: Oct 12th 2019 at 7:58:02 AM

Yeah I'd warn against looking at this as the fault of one specific person instead of a systemic issue.

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#57032: Oct 12th 2019 at 8:07:26 AM

Yeah Hashino appears to have a painfully limited view of the world but blaming him for everything is just the usual "he's the only name we know so let's all hate him." Kinda like how Nomura or Toriyama got shit for stuff that was clearly not their fault in various Square games.

Removing him is not the miracle cure to Persona's various bad opinions/extremely dated humor.

CybranGeneralSturm Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#57033: Oct 12th 2019 at 8:17:08 AM

True, but Hashino was kinda like Jack Thompson: the most visible. The guys in the trenches like the NPC planners have some blame as well, but the most visible people tend to draw most of the attention and thus most of the blame.

Edited by CybranGeneralSturm on Oct 12th 2019 at 8:18:40 AM

asterism from the place I'm at Since: Apr, 2011 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#57034: Oct 12th 2019 at 8:41:10 AM

He may not have been the source of all of it, but a lot of the shit can be traced back in at least part to him, considering the things he's said on the record

Edited by asterism on Oct 12th 2019 at 3:42:35 PM

Bewitching Eyes
Hashil Since: Aug, 2010
#57035: Oct 12th 2019 at 8:47:13 AM

And his decisions have made bank globally. In the east and west Persona has only gotten more and more popular.

Japan is still largely uneasy about the subject to this day, so they have no incentive to suddenly become more open minded if the same old homophobia is neither significantly called out nor detrimental to sales nor series reputation in the east or west.

Edited by Hashil on Oct 12th 2019 at 9:48:41 AM

darkabomination Since: Mar, 2012
#57036: Oct 12th 2019 at 8:58:41 AM

When you get down to it, they're still made as Japan-first titles with the social values and expectations that appeal to the widest general audience. 5 isn't interested in tackling the wider international view on radical social change.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#57037: Oct 12th 2019 at 9:18:47 AM

I mean....we did just get Fire Emblem, which has a slew of same-sex relationship options. Japan itself has become much more active in making such a thing legal as well.

Not saying it's going to have an affect on the series now, but the more these games actively shy away from LGBTQ topics, the more archaic they're going to look when other game companies are becoming more open to them.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#57038: Oct 12th 2019 at 9:44:58 AM

On another forum I frequent there are several posters who vehemently hate P4 and P5 for what they perceive as a pretense to social commentary. P3 was more abstract and philosophical so it gets less shit.

But the point is, Persona gets its intellectual cred entirely from the perception it tackles real issues in the real world. Some would say you can't talk of revolution and change while also being fairly conservative about, say, sexual orientation or identity.

Japan is like anywhere else. You have more liberally minded folks and more conservatively minded folks. Hashino appears to be fairly conservative compared to other Japanese devs.

I don't think Yoko Taro's Persona would have weird anti-gay jokes for example.

Edited by Nikkolas on Oct 12th 2019 at 9:46:10 AM

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#57039: Oct 12th 2019 at 9:49:28 AM

I played a visual novel recently which had a straight up transman whose gender identity was very respectfully treated. There's also Swery's The Missing: J.J. Macfield and the Island of Memories. While degrees of LGB Tphobia aren't uncommon in japanese games, it's not like every other japanese game takes it up to the level Atlus does.

Also seconding that this is almost certainly a systemic/company wide problem.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Oct 12th 2019 at 12:55:30 PM

CybranGeneralSturm Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#57040: Oct 12th 2019 at 9:50:52 AM

So... does that mean that what happened with Catherine was an anomaly?

RodimusMinor Professional Complainer Since: Oct, 2018
Professional Complainer
#57041: Oct 12th 2019 at 9:51:15 AM

The Yakuza series has also gotten a lot better. It used to be on the level of P5 in Yakuza 3, but nowadays it's very respectful towards trans individuals.

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#57042: Oct 12th 2019 at 10:00:51 AM

On social issues that generally matter to us, Japan is about a decade behind.

Most of the social issues dealt in P4 and P5 are mostly very Japanese social issues with commentary with the occasional very Japanese result of.

Also I do wanna add that the games have very different writing teams that dont always match up completely with each other leading to a lot of mixed signals.

Hashil Since: Aug, 2010
#57043: Oct 12th 2019 at 10:03:25 AM

Persona tackles "real issues" in the safest, most marketable way it can.

Maybe some people do play these games for its HARD HITTING social commentary, but I can't imagine that's a real draw.

TrueShadow1 Since: Dec, 2012
#57044: Oct 12th 2019 at 10:05:03 AM

While Japan is still pretty conservative towards LGBT+, I feel they're more open towards trans people than LGB?

In Persona 5 we have those two gay guys, but we also have the pretty cool Lala, who despite being a gonk is never portrayed as anything but positive.

My Hero Academia doesn't have any homosexuals, but has two openly trans characters. Heck, a friend of one of them actually bothered to correct the pronoun when another character misgendered the trans character.

Those are the ones I've remembered at the top of my head. There might be more.

Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#57045: Oct 12th 2019 at 10:08:50 AM

Okama Bar owners, referred to as Mama's, are very well respected by Patrons that go to them.

The Mama from the Yakuza series in particular is not only seen as respected by everyone, but shes more then willing to get her hands dirty in some sidequests.

Watch Symphogear
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#57046: Oct 12th 2019 at 10:15:24 AM

[up][up] Its different...

Crossdressing and other things like that have been in Japanese society for a very long time and even now doing things like that isnt not an element of your sexual identity or gender identity, for the genre see Otokonoko.

asterism from the place I'm at Since: Apr, 2011 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
#57047: Oct 12th 2019 at 10:55:12 AM

Speaking of Lala, here's me only just now noticing that Crossroads's sign has a snail on it

Bewitching Eyes
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#57048: Oct 12th 2019 at 11:17:38 AM

I mean....we did just get Fire Emblem, which has a slew of same-sex relationship options.
It's better than nothing but all but one of Fire Emblem's same-sex romances are between women which are usually looked upon more favorably and are put in for the benefit of straight men.

This song needs more love.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#57049: Oct 12th 2019 at 11:57:50 AM

Yes. The new metric is how many visible gay men you have in your media because of that.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#57050: Oct 12th 2019 at 5:44:51 PM

While I think it's likely the issue goes beyond Hashino, I also think the fact that every single game he directs includes gay panic jokes is telling.


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