Persona series

Yadabaoth is likely more powerful then Nyx due to likely being a piece of YHVH itself, who is easily greater then the embodiment of death.

P3 Protag sealed Nyx Away, p5 protag Killed Yalabaoth.

Watch Symphogear

Eh, from the way the two were presented, I don't really agree. Nyx was going to wipe out humanity, while Yabby was only fucking with Tokyo. Plus, the P3 protag had to use the Universe arcana and the Great Seal to counter Nyx, while Joker just summons Satanael (who's Fool arcana, not even World, much less Universe) and that's that.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

(4)(5)

Ah I see. Thank you for the replies and the detail.

Edited by Soble on Sep 13th 2019 at 7:57:24 AM

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!

I think they also talk about summoning Persona in the real world a bit in Persona 4 Arena.

Edited by Moth13 on Sep 13th 2019 at 11:56:18 AM

Those games are more than a decade old so as far as I'm concerned they don't count at modern games. The way I see it, if it's more than one system back or more than a few years old it's too old to count as modern. With 3 and 4 being Playstation 2 games that puts them firmly in the realm of old games to me as does the fat that they're more than half a decade old.

Seems to vary. The cast of 4 couldn't summon theirs outside the TV World during the game for instance while 3's cast could summon theirs outside of Tarturus.

I'd say they're about even. They all did manage to defeat a god after all.

Edited by Chariot on Sep 13th 2019 at 1:20:57 PM

The PS 2 era persona games got remakes already, they count as old games.

Yaldabaoth is the embodiment of humanity's longing for order, like how Erebus is their longing for death.

Nyx is a straight up alien, not a being from the collective unconscious.

Edited by RodimusMinor on Sep 13th 2019 at 2:34:15 PM

Yeah no yaldabaoth isn't stronger than nyx.

First, assuming yaldy is a part of YHVH starts off with the assumption YHVH exists in the world of persona, which is never stated unless I'm mistaken and is unlikely considering both series works on different and irreconciliable premises.

Second, even if YHVH was a thing in the personaverse, calling it easily greater than death itself is... certainly not obvious ? Nyx isn't a piece of the human unconscious, that's erebus, nyx is death itself, as in, could kill any life on the planet on the spot. Without life, no human unconscious, no yhvh, no yaldy, no iznami, no nyarly, and so on. It's also pretty much proved you can't kill death - the p3 protag harnessed the power of the universe, a power greater than joker ever had and still couldn't damage it in any significant way. So it's vastly more resilient than yaldy, and could obliterate the source of their power too. Again, I don't see what's so obvious about yhvh being stronger than that.

Saying joker is stronger because he "killed" yaldabaoth is even literally contradicting your own point, because embodiment of the collective unconscious can't die so long as humanity keeps on living, erebus proved that in the personaverse ,and that's also the main point in favor of yhvh being greater than death cause he can come back. Except if you kill all humanity, which is what Nyx does, but hey.

And thirdly, even admitting Yhvh is a thing in the personaverse, even admitting at his full power he's stronger than nyx... None of this means yaldy is stronger than nyx ? Considering the scope of what yaldy is shown to be capable of in p5, even if he's part of yhvh, he's much, much weaker and can't do nearly half the stuff yhvh is shown to be capable of.

There's nothing likely about yhvh being stornger than Nyx.

Edited by Yumil on Sep 13th 2019 at 8:45:05 PM

"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."

Nyx is a giant space alien that had its consciousness infect the world and 'gods' and 'persona' are defense mechanisms vs its affects even while dormant.

No one can actually stand up to an awakened Nyx, its implied that if it woke up the world would basically turn into SMT Nocturne. You would actually need a real god or demon to help you survive and we have never actually met one in Persona.

Edited by Memers on Sep 13th 2019 at 12:03:54 PM

For some reason, I find it funny that Nyx in Persona is a world-ending threat yet in SMT proper and other spinoffs she's just a Random Encounter if she ever appears.

Edited by CybranGeneralSturm on Sep 13th 2019 at 12:15:43 PM

Devil Summoner is heavily implied to be in the same verse as Persona is due references to SMT IF in the same vein as Persona 1s. So Real Gods and Real Demons do exist in it. Hell, you could even say the velvet room attendants are similar to Stephen, Mido and Saint Germain in that respect of beings that are not reliant on the collective unconsious or the Great Will to exist.

Watch Symphogear

i don't know how far the references go so people who played both games will be the judges, but just because you reference stuff from other fictions as a shout-out doesn't necessarily imply they actually share a world. Castlevania as a whole makes a lot of references to Jo Jo's bizarre adventure such as the stone mask and others, but it doesn't actually means the two shares a verse, for example.

Also, aren't the velvet room attendents directly created by igor, who in turn is created by the litteral embodiment of humanity's goodness ? that doesn't strike me as a good example of entities existing without humanity's unconscious.

Edited by Yumil on Sep 13th 2019 at 9:38:15 PM

"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."

Persona branches off from SMT somewhere between 1940s-1990s.

Well to be exact it branches from Devil Summoner that branches off from SMT. With Devil Summoner in the 90s-00 .

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Sep 13th 2019 at 12:42:25 PM

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.

That was probably the intent with Persona 1 and 2 (IIRC the latter even outright features characters from Devil Summoner), but it's probably been shuffled aside with Persona's crushing popularity.

That's interesting, how do different world events affect the demon realm?

Edited by RedHunter543 on Sep 13th 2019 at 12:50:36 PM

I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.

How powerful is Chronos? Dude straight-up broke the Velvet Room and the Power of the Wild Card and implicitly offscreen'd Philemon himself.

Edited by HamburgerTime on Sep 13th 2019 at 2:55:52 PM

The pig of Hufflepuff pulsed like a large bullfrog. Dumbledore smiled at it, and placed his hand on its head: "You are Hagrid now."

Yeah, aside from some vague references to Philemon in 3 and some implied cameos of the 1 and 2 casts in 3's TV programs, everything after the 2 games is effectively a soft reboot. So any connections to SMT from the early Personas doesn't really count anymore, if it ever did to begin with.

"No will to break."

3 really was written with a different continuity from SMT in mind, being from a completely different team, most of the stuff from 3-5 just dont work with the other continuities. They bent over backwards to make the Night Queen quest fit but no more than that.

SMT and such are angels and demons while 3 is a cosmic horror story and 4 and 5 use elements of that to build their too world.

And with director and such leaving the P-team likely it will end with 5.

There's not a chance in hell that Atlus is going to let the Persona series end with P5, new director or not. It makes them way too much money for that.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

Yeah persona is too much of a cashcow to stop or even change up the formula too much. The new director is likely to be tasked to emulate as closely as possible what worked with the three previous games.

"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."

Well I mean the way the world works and Nyx and such will likely be pretty different compared to P3-5. Likely they will try to further connect the series to SMT and/or P1 and P2.

The Raidou timeline came out after P3, which is where the knowledge of how it all branches in wacky ways comes from.

SMT IF... is and still is considered mainline, as they confirmed in the anniversary during the concerts.

Basically you just have to assume some WACKY stuff happens that deposes YHVH from power since he plotted the events of SMTI all along, Lucifer is chilling off somewhere, and Persona is now able to do its own thing.

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.

Regardless if it can be worked into canon it's never going to be brought up.

More like "Let's pretend it never happened" which fits everything following Post-P3 where the initial side materials like the fanbook and stuff implied WACKY NYARLY SHENANIGANS lead to Mitsuru's grandpa being crazy and the fanbook actually mentions the Great Will when talking about Nyx(separate entities).

And even then they add some ideas for Tatsuyas Scenario for EPP that seem to be the basis for The Royal(If Lovecraft critters are around expect a Big Bad Outer God to come down~)

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Sep 13th 2019 at 2:29:11 AM

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.

Just because two things share the same name doesn't mean they're the same being. Izanami from P4 and Izanami from the original Megaten probably aren't the samme goddess either.