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BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#56526: Aug 26th 2019 at 6:56:30 PM

It's occured to me that as much as...some of us, like Persona 5...we have all but lost any faith in Atlus as a company huh?

Like Jesus Christ, I never realized how unpopular they were in this thread on this subject, but yikes...

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#56527: Aug 26th 2019 at 6:57:59 PM

I mean Atlus being terrible at handling social topics has been a thing since at least Persona 4.

This song needs more love.
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#56528: Aug 26th 2019 at 6:58:13 PM

As a game it's good, but I wouldn't count them to tackle delicate topics with any kind of tact.

Wake me up at your own risk.
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#56529: Aug 26th 2019 at 7:00:58 PM

[up][up] Yea, but its never been the focus of any subject online until recently. Nowadays, I don't think anyone has a high opinion of their writing anymore lol.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#56530: Aug 26th 2019 at 7:02:32 PM

[up]eh, plenty of people still like the writing in the Persona games, I see people defending 5 all the time and 3 and 4 are much more well-liked.

It's just one of those things where the community here is a bit sour on certain aspects of the game for various reasons.

CountofBleck Starting to believe in himself from New Wirral (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Starting to believe in himself
#56531: Aug 26th 2019 at 7:04:15 PM

As long as the same directors and writers are about, yeah the problems will persists. Arcsys cant make walk cycles, Atlus makes both profound and tone deaf statements, and the world continues to turn.

OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#56532: Aug 26th 2019 at 7:06:00 PM

Atlus does the All Myths Are True that they can end up doing theories that have lots of unfortunate undertones because they want all the crackpot theories to be true.

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
RodimusMinor Professional Complainer Since: Oct, 2018
Professional Complainer
#56533: Aug 26th 2019 at 7:06:21 PM

Persona 5 had a lot of good ideas and smart things to say about a corrupt society that protects the wicked, and then half the time it's a bargain bin anime waifu schlockfest.

It's certainly the closest I've ever felt a generic anime chosen one power fantasy to be genuinely uplifting and inspiring.

Edited by RodimusMinor on Aug 26th 2019 at 10:07:57 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#56534: Aug 26th 2019 at 7:06:27 PM

What its natural for a fanbase to get cynical after a certain point due to certain conditions.

Like I actually used to enjoy the Micheal Bay Transformers movies but if you look at my recent posts you'd never believe that was true. tongue

[up] Atlus has to decide whether it wants the games to be a serious epic or pandering anime schlock. It can't be both.

Edited by slimcoder on Aug 26th 2019 at 7:08:14 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
deludedmusings Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#56535: Aug 26th 2019 at 7:09:46 PM

Basically, yeah.

The first part shows how well they can handle serious things when they want to... And then they faceplant into anime tropes.

RodimusMinor Professional Complainer Since: Oct, 2018
Professional Complainer
#56536: Aug 26th 2019 at 7:11:43 PM

Basically, yeah.

Futaba has crippling anxiety and you literally have to change her perception of herself to save her from suicide! Now she's dateable, right?

Ann is a victim of horrifying sexual abuse at the hands of a disgusting gym teacher, but now let's have Yusuke force her to strip for his amusement.

Here's a slew of older woman (but none of them are over 30 because ew) who by no definition should be attracted to a high schooler, but it's a JRPG so they need to want your bland vanilla penis.

And then... you get the red hot Kamoshida arc, Lala Escargot, Shido being Donald Shinzo Trump Abe, the end where all of Tokyo rallies behind you and the Phantom Thieves go down as modern legends. It's great it's powerful, and it ultimately gets dragged down by the anime bullshit.

OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#56537: Aug 26th 2019 at 7:13:55 PM

Being older than 20 is groundbreaking animewise. Women can't find a man after that, especially when they're twenty five.

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#56538: Aug 26th 2019 at 7:15:46 PM

Well it goes deeper than just "anime tropes".

The problem is that Atlus consistently prioritizes indulgement and wish fulfillment for male otaku even when it starts to feel gross or compromises what they are trying to do.

This has been a problem to an extent since Persona 3 and has only gotten worse with time. It just stings particularly bad in P5 because it's trying to be a serious commentary on exploitation of the youth in Japan and bad power structures, while also indulging in a lot of the skeevier/unfunny anime comedy and fanservice that JRPG's normally do. The latter can already be critiqued on its own terms but it feels very self-congratulatory in 5; "sexual harassment of women is a big deal but also here's ann's tits".

Edited by Draghinazzo on Aug 26th 2019 at 10:18:52 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#56539: Aug 26th 2019 at 7:16:04 PM

4 had it easy.

It deals with relatively uncomplex shit like being yourself & friendship. It doesn't have to try hard because its problems don't require that much effort.

3 had it even easier because it was made at a time when the franchise wasn't a mega-hit. When the franchise became more of a household name, that's when the indulgence started coming in bigger droves.

Edited by slimcoder on Aug 26th 2019 at 7:17:31 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#56540: Aug 26th 2019 at 7:17:22 PM

This thread doesn't represent the entire Atlus Fandom. If it did, none of their games would have ever sold well in the first place.

Watch Symphogear
deludedmusings Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#56541: Aug 26th 2019 at 7:20:37 PM

Of course, but then the critical voices aren't just this thread either.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#56542: Aug 26th 2019 at 7:23:08 PM

I feel that problem is kind of on the fanbase too; because hey, those "Anime cliches" were what made the series more known in the West, namely the Social Link system. So Atlus did what any business would and double downed on that shit.

And sure, I know we all act like a bunch of grumpy old adults on the Internet now, but there was a time when we did like that stuff and it's what gave Atlus the fuel to keep going.

However, they also want to tell a serious story with social commentary, but you can't drop the Anime wish fulfillment stuff otherwise you end up alienating most of the audience (for better or worse, its the most popular part of the game.)

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#56543: Aug 26th 2019 at 7:23:40 PM

True.

But I don't really listen to them as much, because a lot of it comes down to semantics.

all that matters to me about Persona 5 and Persona in general, is the fun boss fights, casts of characters, and better more intuitive gameplay with each installment.

P 5 R is already looking to rectify some gameplay issues with 5, and is even more of a change story wise then P 3 FES or P 4 G, to the point of being almost an entirely new game by its end game and overall gameplay loop. Hell, Jose and his Mementos shenanigans is already a massive change for the tradtional Dungeon Crawler segments of the games outside of the Palaces.

[up] "anime cliches" don't matter to me, because I expect those in a game from Japan, and I have an extremely high Willing Suspension of Disbelief for those.

Edited by Demongodofchaos2 on Aug 26th 2019 at 10:25:36 AM

Watch Symphogear
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#56544: Aug 26th 2019 at 7:36:38 PM

Well that depends; I don't really care either, I've watched so much Anime that I've stopped caring.

But I do understand why that stuff turns people off, especially when it runs at odds with the themes the game are trying to portray. Even I was raising my eyebrows at how after having an entire arc on exploring the seriousness of a teacher using his authority to abuse and sexually harass his students...we follow that up with exploiting the central fanservice character for laughs.

I was laughing at the sheer audacity of it tbh.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Jetyl The Dev Cat from my apartment Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
The Dev Cat
#56545: Aug 26th 2019 at 7:41:09 PM

but the thing that irks, well irks me i guess, is in part of being a wish fulfillment fantasy, is that it wants you to put yourself in the setting, but when your someone like me, or really anyone else not in the demographic they assume the game is for, it feels like we are being directly told either a)this game is not for you/you do not belong here, or b) what you want in this story to do isn't worth doing/ isn't "normal".

thats really what bugs me about a lot of anime, but it is exacerbated in games where there is a degree of player interaction

Edited by Jetyl on Aug 26th 2019 at 7:42:13 AM

I'm afraid I can't explain myself, sir. Because I am not myself, you see?
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#56546: Aug 26th 2019 at 7:43:07 PM

The tonal shifts are funny.

They can't stick with one, heheh.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#56547: Aug 26th 2019 at 7:46:56 PM

I don't find it to be a shift in tone so much as as a Breather after something heavy.

There's also the fact that Comedy is subjective as a whole. I can get why people wouldn't find "anime humor" funny. I'm the kind of guy who's fine with that kind of humor, because I'm a rather laid back guy IRL.

Senki Zesshou Symphogear is also known for its jarring tone shifts, but its so sincere in them that you can end up growing to love it anyway.

Watch Symphogear
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#56548: Aug 26th 2019 at 7:48:37 PM

I'm gonna assume better writing goes in the tonal shifts there.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#56549: Aug 26th 2019 at 7:48:42 PM

[up][up][up][up] Well...and I hate to be super blunt here...but that's not exactly wrong. If a game is geared toward a specific demographic and you find yourself not enjoying it due to outgrowing the traits associated with it. Is it really the game's fault?

Sometimes...we outgrow stuff and stop enjoying things that we used to enjoy when we were younger. Hell, I used to be the biggest Sonic nerd ever, but here I am having not bought a game in almost a decade (barring Mania cuz that game is FIRE) simply because I simply did not care for the direction the series was headed.

I can put up with Persona 5's stuff, mostly because I know the demographic it's aiming for, and can at least enjoy the bits that AREN'T aimed at teenagers.

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Aug 26th 2019 at 10:48:58 AM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#56550: Aug 26th 2019 at 7:53:36 PM

[up]Pretty sure Jetyl is referring to being queer, not being old.


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