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slimcoder I'm No One Special. Just a Passing Pro Wrestler.
I'm No One Special. Just a Passing Pro Wrestler.
Dec 6th 2018 at 11:58:49 PM

[up] Oh crap well that ruined the punchline I was setting up.

Yumil mad archivist from France
mad archivist
Dec 7th 2018 at 12:02:28 AM

Yeah i'm totally betting on an all-out attack for the smash. that's box they handled shulk and i don't think a detail from the announce trailer from before they finish his moveset is gonna change anything.

Also fuck me that's the first legit thing to hype me for this game.

Edited by Yumil on Dec 7th 2018 at 9:03:25 PM

OmegaRadiance Relationship Status: All is for my lord
Dec 7th 2018 at 12:21:38 AM

Shulk doesn't have any big special attack to really use as a Final Smash. So him working together with his friends works fine.

Joker actually has bigger things he can use to kill enemies with. Just like the Arena games where Yu uses Izanagi No Okami for his Instant Kill.

Dec 7th 2018 at 12:31:52 AM

@ Jack Frost as trophy

Nah, even if there were trophies, chances are it's gonna be Morgana

Yumil mad archivist from France
mad archivist
Dec 7th 2018 at 12:39:52 AM

[up][up]the giant monado buster he killed zanza with in his home game, summoning Monado III for a transformation similar to mégas pokemons, monado cyclone, a combined attack with fiora... even just regular monado buster can do. That statement is just factually untrue. Which is funny because the final buster is essentially his version of summoning satanael.

There was plenty of satanael-like attacks they could have chosen for a final smash. They just didn't went with that. Which is exactly why i don't think the'll go that way for joker. Would be a pleasant surprise though.

As a matter of fact since snake was prohibited from using handguns in the first place joker even has less of them since that means no guns shenanigans and maybe even no sinful Shell.

Edited by Yumil on Dec 7th 2018 at 9:51:05 PM

OmegaRadiance Relationship Status: All is for my lord
Dec 7th 2018 at 12:50:11 AM

The strike he used to kill Zanza isn't named, and I'd honestly don't feel those have the oomph Joker has with Satanael shooting foes with a Bullet powered by the Seven Deadly Sins. Satanael is Arsene's true form so unleashing it is fitting too.

Shulk, however, gained the power to slay Zanza gathering light from each of his friends to make his Monado III. So some of his friends joining him to obliterate the enemy is completely fitting with how he got his Monado to kill Zanza with. It is disappointing they don't have the Monado turn into it during that part though. But then he isn't fighting alongside his entier group. Only Dunban and Riki so that makes sense.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Dec 7th 2018 at 12:51:47 PM

Yumil mad archivist from France
mad archivist
Dec 7th 2018 at 12:56:18 AM

[up]that's just ymmv at this point : i honestly put the two in the same kind of oompf.

Besides, satanael was summoned by the wishes of the entire town of Tokyo giving joker the power so this is literally the same situation, and also means joker shouldn't be able to summon him alone. Even the game enforces that, making satanael much smaller and weaker when summoned in ng+.

So it's exactly like what you just said about shulk.

You can say it would be fitting for a final smash all you want, but again so were a lot more things than a chain attack fitting for shulk and they still didn't went for that.

Edited by Yumil on Dec 7th 2018 at 10:15:53 AM

LordVatek Not really a lord of anything
Not really a lord of anything
Dec 7th 2018 at 12:58:25 AM

Split the difference: All-Out Attack with Satanael as the finishing move.

This song needs more love.
OmegaRadiance Relationship Status: All is for my lord
Dec 7th 2018 at 1:15:05 AM

Uh no summoning Satanael was of his own power. Arsene even alludes to unveiling his true form when the time is right. What the people of Tokyo did was heal and protect the Thieves from Yaldy's attacks, as well as removing most of their protection from Yaldy himself. If he had done that desperate act of breaking Arsene's chain before that point Satanael would disappear afterwards like we see after the attack.

Getting Satanael of his own power is always within Jokers reach. Unlike the Monado III needing that unique solo situation.

Just like Yu could evoke Izanagi NO Okami whenever he wants but doesn't after Arena. And like PQ 1 the gang in PQ 2 can summon their ultimates including Satanael.

If those spoilers about the Phantom Thieves remembering the events of PQ 2 would also mean he knows what Arsene becomes...and also explains why Goro doesn't get Loki. Damn so that's why he only gets a glowing Blue Robin Hood.

[up] That works too!

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Dec 7th 2018 at 1:16:15 AM

Yumil mad archivist from France
mad archivist
Dec 7th 2018 at 1:17:37 AM

Yeah, a satanael much smaller and weaker than the one summoned in the ending that cannot use sinful Shell. Yaldabaoth even outright calls him a god born from the wishes of the masses. Come on.

Edited by Yumil on Dec 7th 2018 at 10:18:46 AM

OmegaRadiance Relationship Status: All is for my lord
Dec 7th 2018 at 1:20:42 AM

That's Yaldy describing himself.

Satanael is a Demon King who deals with an arrogant God.

Yumil mad archivist from France
mad archivist
Dec 7th 2018 at 1:23:39 AM

Because the thing you just literally called lucifer in the personaverse, the thing born of humanity's chaos, doesn't count as a god born from the wishes of the masses. Of course, Silly me.

And i guess the size and powerset différence is just that joker wants a fair fight with the rest of the game but totally could do it on his own too, while we're at it ?

Edited by Yumil on Dec 7th 2018 at 10:26:39 AM

OmegaRadiance Relationship Status: All is for my lord
Dec 7th 2018 at 1:28:23 AM

Because the potential of individual humans can surpass the collective Order/Chaos of the masses.

Nyarly learned this the hard way in P2 EP. he even laughs at the Irony that even a single human can surpass all of humanity when he gets besten at the end before getting cut down. That's why Yaldy's dumbfounded, as Satanael's power surpasses the will of the masses.

Edit: Joker doesn't break Asenes chains to summon Satanael normally. There seems to be a distinct difference in that. How that works exactly is beyond me.

And Im downplaying how pivotal the mases were. Their protection made the PT invulnerable to Yaldys attacks afterall.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Dec 7th 2018 at 1:31:18 AM

Yumil mad archivist from France
mad archivist
Dec 7th 2018 at 1:30:41 AM

That really didn't disproved any of my points, you just took a différent situation that had a résolution that suits your narrative without explaining anything. From before persona got soft rebooted into what it is now no less.

At this point you're breaking the entire aesop of persona that people with the wild card become strong through the bonds they form with people so you can justify satanael being a potential final smash but i guess i'm dumb enough to argue with you about it so i'm not exactly better.

Edited by Yumil on Dec 7th 2018 at 10:33:21 AM

OmegaRadiance Relationship Status: All is for my lord
Dec 7th 2018 at 1:34:34 AM

Individual Bonds can strengthen an individual. My point never said otherwise. A single mans potential is limitless, but most humans will never get to that point. Sometimes the aid of others can help that person reach said potential. Even if they themselves never will.

But it is a point that he destroys the chain connecting him and Arsene, which turned him into a pillar of light to become the Demon Lord. Then After Yaldys failed attack and Giant Satanael already summoned does Joker absorb the hopes of the masses.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Dec 7th 2018 at 1:35:01 AM

Yumil mad archivist from France
mad archivist
Dec 7th 2018 at 1:37:22 AM

So according to your narrative joker is going to break the chain again and potentually risk to destroy his persona in the process since you said that satanael should've disappeared in the process without the specific situation that called for it, and instead to win a smash battle.

Sounds reasonable.

Edited by Yumil on Dec 7th 2018 at 10:38:31 AM

OmegaRadiance Relationship Status: All is for my lord
Dec 7th 2018 at 1:38:08 AM

Persona Break is a thing in Arena afterall!tongue

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Dec 7th 2018 at 1:38:22 AM

Yumil mad archivist from France
mad archivist
Dec 7th 2018 at 1:46:50 AM

So joker can do sinful-Shell satanael on his own (almost) no problem, but shulk cannot under any circumstances summon monado III without his entire team of friends being around even though the game consistently calls monado III shulk's monado even way before he actually gains it, which implies the power is mostly his and not just his friends's, and that he had the power in himself long before getting the light of his friends since he acquires the power of foresight on his own too that only monado users have.

I swear to satanael that if this forum had the thonking emoji you'd be getting at least six of those by now.

Edited by Yumil on Dec 7th 2018 at 10:58:21 AM

Larkmarn Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
Dec 7th 2018 at 6:34:38 AM

[up]No trophies in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. We can only hope Jack Frost will be with us in Spirit.

Wait, what? Lame. What does Ultimate have other than new characters?

Weirdguy149 The most dangerous salesman from Sega Headquarters Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
The most dangerous salesman
Dec 7th 2018 at 6:44:07 AM

So what do you guys think the stage for Joker will be? The only two I can think of are the Velvet Room and Mementos.

SEGA SATURN!
Yumil mad archivist from France
mad archivist
Dec 7th 2018 at 6:50:53 AM

[up][up]spirits.

[up]Also i'd say Tokyo.

Edited by Yumil on Dec 7th 2018 at 3:51:05 PM

Dec 7th 2018 at 6:55:31 AM
Thumped: This post has been thumped with the mod stick. This means knock it off.
Yumil mad archivist from France
mad archivist
Dec 7th 2018 at 7:01:12 AM

... why though ?

I mean, they said joker, not zelenin.

Nap1100 Relationship Status: Dancing with myself
Dec 7th 2018 at 7:42:21 AM

There's possibly the Casino of Envy. First area of the game and one of the most iconic. Plus the area the opening takes place leaves room for people to fall.

For Those who Seek the Thrill of Death: A Dramatic SMT3 Hard Playthrough
JRads47 The Kojima Family from my point of view, the Jedi are evil!
The Kojima Family
Dec 7th 2018 at 9:01:28 AM

[up][up]Guy's just butthurt. He blew up the Smash thread too with his mental gymnastics.

Edited by JRads47 on Dec 7th 2018 at 12:01:37 PM

SHUT CAM DOWN

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