TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Haruhi Suzumiya

Go To

YasminPerry Since: May, 2015
#4776: May 3rd 2016 at 5:01:46 AM

Most dykes in anime are annoying stereotypes, which is why I tend to dislike them. (I'm bi, so I can get away with saying "dyke" wink).

vandro Shop Owner from The little shop that wasn't Since: Jul, 2009
Shop Owner
#4777: May 3rd 2016 at 5:18:38 AM

I'd do anything for a blonde dyke, I mean, boasting N-Word Privileges seems kinda pointless in this instance. I don't share the US compulsion to self-censor based on my characteristics.

beneficii Since: Nov, 2011
#4778: May 4th 2016 at 7:26:32 AM

My favorite scene in the first few episodes of Nagato Yuki-chan was when Haruhi, Koizumi, and Kyon team up to capture Mikuru, but must first battle Tsuruya. It's fun and hilarious to watch at the same time.

YasminPerry Since: May, 2015
#4779: May 4th 2016 at 8:14:37 AM

My favourite scene in Nagato Yuki-chan is the credits. (Oooh! Burn!)

beneficii Since: Nov, 2011
#4780: May 8th 2016 at 5:39:58 PM

Ryoko's apparent inappropriate cheerfulness when trying to kill Kyon or wondering aloud how Kuyo would react if Kyon died might be because the interfaces can suppress their fight-or-flight response via control of the autonomic nervous system, through the interface's data link. Normally, someone who is ordinarily cheerful would lose the ability to be cheerful once the fight-or-flight response kicks in, like in a situation where they're trying to kill someone. Because Ryoko is able to suppress her fight-or-flight response, however, she is able to maintain her cheerfulness.

I think it's specifically cheerfulness that she maintains because when she is most relaxed, Ryoko is naturally outgoing and feminine, presumably because that's how her model was. The interfaces have this suppression of the fight-or-flight response so they don't lose their cool in critical situations, which lets them stay relaxed. Staying relaxed is something that normal humans usually cannot do in such stressful situations as trying to kill somebody or fighting off an enemy; the stress changes their emotional expression, making it different from how they are when relaxed.

You can see this same issue in Yuki, only that when she's relaxed Yuki is reserved; her normal emotional expression simply doesn't change in stressful situations. That Yuki comes off as less creepy in such situations probably comes from the fact that she's normally reserved, rather than cheerful. It's one thing to have a fight where the participant comes across as reserved—they simply look like they're in control—, but quite another when they are cheerful about it, due to the fact that such an emotion is clearly inappropriate.

TLDR: When she's relaxed Ryoko is naturally outgoing and cheerful; because she can suppress her fight-or-flight response, she can stay relaxed in highly stressful situations like when she's trying to kill someone or is battling a dangerous foe. Because she can stay relaxed, her expression does not change, allowing her to remain cheerful, which comes across as creepy in certain situations. Yuki is the same, only that she's normally reserved not cheerful, so she does not come across as creepy in very stressful situations.

edited 8th May '16 5:44:11 PM by beneficii

DarkHunter from New Mexico Since: Jan, 2001
#4781: May 8th 2016 at 6:13:48 PM

I always assumed she always remained cheerful because that cheerfulness was false. She's not really cheerful, she's just "programmed" to act cheerful as part of her ability to blend in with humans.

In my mind, she's similar to Yuki in that she doesn't know how to emote. But while Yuki maintains a stoic, blank look most of the time as a result, Ryoko had her cheerfulness programmed on top of that. It's automatic, not conscious.

tl;dr: We have no idea what Ryoko's real emotions are. The ones she displays are a mask. Just as Yuki's stoicism is a mask that hides her real feelings.

edited 8th May '16 6:14:57 PM by DarkHunter

shanejayell Since: Jun, 2011
#4782: May 8th 2016 at 6:23:56 PM

Or she just doesn't GET that being cheerful and genki while murdering is wrong. tongue

beneficii Since: Nov, 2011
#4783: May 8th 2016 at 6:54:40 PM

I think her cheerfulness is genuine, and is how she normally is. Failure to change her emotion comes from the total stress immunity that she has from being able to suppress her fight-or-flight response and other stress reactions.

The interfaces appear to have legit physical humanoid bodies, so obviously there's going to be a brain in their cranium. I think the basis for the interface's personalities comes from the pre-existing human models they're based on, allowing them to come complete with socialization, so they can interact in human society immediately after creation.

beneficii Since: Nov, 2011
#4784: May 8th 2016 at 7:06:41 PM

Think of it this way: When you're in a tense situation, your stress reaction will prevent you from acting and coming across the same way as when you are completely relaxed, when you can open up and most be yourself. It's not a question of "knowing" to change your emotions, but rather the stress reaction changes them for you, or at least restricts them to the kinds of emotions we see when someone is highly stressed. Generally, it is impossible for you to suppress your stress reaction, and so it's impossible for you to act "laid back"or like you're engaging in idle chitchat in such situations.

If the interfaces don't change their emotions in tense situations, it doesn't come from a lack of "knowledge", but from the mechanisms that force the change not being there. There may be multiple possible mechanisms for this, but I'm thinking it comes from being able to completely suppress the underlying stress reaction. Such suppression is likely automatic and is there so that the interfaces can act how the Data Overmind wants them to in tense situations, rather than having possible complicating factors like the interfaces fearing for their lives or making stupid decisions based on emotions: thus, they can keep a cool head, and stay present and focused.

edited 8th May '16 7:09:23 PM by beneficii

AnotherDuck No, the other one. from Stockholm Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: Mu
No, the other one.
#4785: May 9th 2016 at 3:09:20 AM

Where are you getting that flight-or-fight response from? Why are you assuming Ryoko even has one, or that it works like it does for humans? She's not a human. She doesn't need to get stressed in the same situations you assume a human must. She also doesn't perceive death the same as humans, so she wouldn't react the same to the risk of facing it.

I'm not sure what the point is in assuming she gets her personality from her model (by the way, where did they mention they're based on existing people?), rather than from herself, and her mannerism from what she's deduced to be appropriate.

I think Ryoko is rather cheerful, though. Maybe not in a human way, but in her own way. She's an optimist who sees possibilities, rather than limitations or dangers.

Check out my fanfiction!
darkabomination Since: Mar, 2012
#4786: May 9th 2016 at 9:47:01 PM

[up] [up] Yeah that's headcanon with little basis in the books.

I think that's a better way to look at it. Death isn't the same thing for them and they can be re-formed, so her idea of killing Kyon to see what happens is a very drastic one, but from her own mindset is a legitimate attempt to see what happens out of innocent curiosity.

Of course, Kyon's not a construct so we're going to have a problem there. Though if Yuki might have been able to revive him is a fair enough question.

edited 9th May '16 9:47:59 PM by darkabomination

Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#4787: May 9th 2016 at 10:32:50 PM

Killing Kyon is like taking a wheel out of a hamster's cage. It changes the subject's environment by taking away something they seem to use a lot. From the broad, alien, timeless perspective that's been implied of the Overmind, it's not such a strange idea.

Also, while Ryoko and Yuki are artificial, I've always inferred that they have human bodies. They aren't golems or anything; the godlike Data Overmind simply created fully functional people out of nothing. Because it can do that.

DarkHunter from New Mexico Since: Jan, 2001
#4788: May 10th 2016 at 12:20:32 AM

Indeed, which is why I said they have emotions, they just don't know how to express them.

Well, it's pretty clear Yuki has emotions anyway. I'm inferring that the rest must as well, even if they aren't as independent as she is becoming.

YasminPerry Since: May, 2015
#4789: May 10th 2016 at 3:49:08 AM

What I want to know is how the heck do you program an Artificial Human with emotions?! The Data Overmind must have some fantastic technology.

Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#4790: May 10th 2016 at 5:13:19 AM

The Data Overmind is indistinguishable from God. I wouldn't say it's technology: it seems to be an omniscient, omnipresent being that exists outside of time and space. The fact that it's so unrestrained from human limitations makes it difficult to understand what exactly it wants, which is sort of the point, really. It's a truly alien existence.

But frankly, emotions are probably the easy part. If the body has glands, the brain will experience emotions. Taking out emotions would be the thing that requires a more delicate touch.

edited 10th May '16 5:14:26 AM by Clarste

beneficii Since: Nov, 2011
#4791: May 10th 2016 at 9:40:07 AM

My thinking about the TFEI's nature is along Clarste's lines, though they explained it much better than I could. My thinking for how their minds work, as I mentioned a few pages up, is probably that their nervous system is connected by what Yuki called the data link to organic lifeform to what Ryoko called "ayatsuri-nushi" or master or perhaps more accurately controller. I imagine this as working like a brain-computer interface, with a tight feedback loop. It appears to me that the TFEI and the controller (likely a data lifeform) are 2 different people, judging from Ryoko's exposition at the end of her fight with Yuki.

Assuming Clarste's explanations regarding the brain and emotions as they relate to the TFEI, the data link may interfere with their emotions, but not completely eliminate them. The presence of the data link might cause a tendency toward stereotyped emotions (i.e. where it's the same few emotions all the time); or as I suggested above, it might serve other purposes like suppressing the fight-or-flight response that is built into the human brain via direct action on the autonomic nervous system. Again, this suppression would allow the TFEI to remain relaxed even in very tense situations; thus, the TFEI wouldn't express fear or anxiety, and would be able to maintain their usual emotional expression (cheerfulness for Ryoko and being reserved for Yuki). It's just that in such situations, cheerfulness comes across as much creepier than being reserved.

EDIT: Another thing that might affect them is that they don't generally seem to have a close connection to normal people; they're expected to work their entire lives, sometimes having to take on very difficult jobs (like Yuki having to remember all 600 years of that groundhog day loop or endure a terrible illness in order to communicate with someone), with no work-life balance (like they seem to work way more than 40 hours a week on top of school); and their lives are short, based on what Yuki said regarding Nakagawa's proposal. Yuki joining the SOS Brigade and becoming involved with its activities and people has started to change some of that for her, giving her a closer connection to other people, including the normal person Kyon.

edited 10th May '16 9:56:03 AM by beneficii

hcobb Since: Jan, 2001
#4792: May 11th 2016 at 4:28:17 PM

I once wrote a story that Haruhi's problem is possession by a data overmind as of her ceremony, which is why the time travelers sent somebody else back to take her place at that point.

Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#4794: May 11th 2016 at 5:00:27 PM

I forget just how hyper she is in Japanese. In the dub's she's almost lucid by comparison. I've always felt there was a miscast between dubs where Japan got the better Haruhi

Nevermind.

Was going to argue, but the youtube clip to the dubbed "Haruhi Dropkick" scene turned out garbage.

edited 11th May '16 5:01:59 PM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
hcobb Since: Jan, 2001
#4795: May 11th 2016 at 6:10:29 PM

What's your theory for what happened at the chalk drawing ceremony?

beneficii Since: Nov, 2011
#4796: May 11th 2016 at 6:32:01 PM

I'm pretty sure that Haruhi got her powers before the chalk-drawing incident because Kyon and Mikuru were able to time travel to just before it. Remember what Mikuru said about Haruhi creating a timequake that prevents time travellers from going back to before the timequake?

DarkHunter from New Mexico Since: Jan, 2001
#4797: May 11th 2016 at 7:02:46 PM

Or it was just the first time she actually used her powers and did... whatever the hell it was she did to local reality. From her description of her childhood, she sounded very passive, taking life as it comes. That incident was the first time she decided to be proactive and make something happen, which I believe unconsciously unleashed her power for the first time.

edited 11th May '16 7:05:46 PM by DarkHunter

beneficii Since: Nov, 2011
#4798: May 12th 2016 at 12:03:12 PM

At the beginning of the 2nd episode, when Kyon arrives at the classroom and Haruhi sees him and comes to talk to him about how she wants to have a mysterious transfer student in her club, I think I have some idea of what might have been going through her head. When I was a kid, I did this kinda thing a lot, so much that multiple reports were written on it.

My guess is that morning, perhaps while she was walking to school, the idea for a mysterious transfer student popped into her head, and she became excited. The idea just kept going around and around in her head. She wanted to tell somebody about it, and for her such a person she knows she can tell it to is Kyon. Everyone else would just give her a nasty look, make fun of her, or ignore her, but she knows Kyon is different. She arrives in the classroom, still thinking about the mysterious transfer student, nearly ready to burst with excitement about the thought of telling Kyon about it, and she just can't wait until Kyon arrives. Finally, Kyon arrives and Haruhi, excited, goes up to tell Kyon about her thoughts about the mysterious transfer student. Things like maintaining personal space or setting up the context don't even enter her mind.

darkabomination Since: Mar, 2012
#4799: May 13th 2016 at 1:13:24 AM

There's also the John Smith thing. It might be possible that she subconsciously remembers this guy and instinctively thinks she can tell him.

Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#4800: May 13th 2016 at 12:09:08 PM

Eh, it's pretty clear in the first episode that she doesn't care about him at all until he starts talking to her, and even then it takes a lot of persistence.


Total posts: 4,978
Top