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CountDorku Behold my legal acumen! from the depths of insanity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Behold my legal acumen!
#3576: Oct 25th 2015 at 12:12:37 AM

I'm pretty sure that's exactly why they put it in.

Lanceleoghauni Cyborg Helmsman from Z or R Twice Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: In my bunk
#3577: Oct 26th 2015 at 5:23:45 PM

I'm thinking of making a Twilight caste martial artist accountant type character. How well do the new rules work for say, inventing a martial art form that attacks people's credit scores directly?

"Coffee! Coffeecoffeecoffee! Coffee! Not as strong as Meth-amphetamine, but it lets you keep your teeth!"
Lanceleoghauni Cyborg Helmsman from Z or R Twice Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: In my bunk
#3578: Nov 3rd 2015 at 10:09:46 PM

Can anyone help me with a clarification of the Brawl/Martial Arts rules?

"Martial Arts cannot be taken as a Caste or Favored Ability by itself. Instead, if Brawl is a Caste or Favored Ability, then so is Martial Arts"

Does this mean you'd end up with a free favored ability (for a total of 6), but have 1 less initial dot to distribute through your abilities (since all favored abilities require 1 dot)? Or does it use up both one of your favored abilities, and a dot?

"Coffee! Coffeecoffeecoffee! Coffee! Not as strong as Meth-amphetamine, but it lets you keep your teeth!"
Adannor (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#3579: Nov 3rd 2015 at 10:16:10 PM

3e, right? There is an infinite amount of Martial Arts Abilities, so demanding to drop a dot into all of them is silly. Moreover, by default rules you need to drop 1 dot in Brawl to start on any MA.

So basically: caste/fav selection - you get brawl and all MA abilities simultaneously for 1 slot; mandatory favoured dot goes into Brawl regardless of whether you intent to advance Brawl or MA.

Lanceleoghauni Cyborg Helmsman from Z or R Twice Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: In my bunk
#3580: Nov 3rd 2015 at 10:30:13 PM

so it's one dot in brawl, then the rest into the MA of your choice, bought as normal yes?

"Coffee! Coffeecoffeecoffee! Coffee! Not as strong as Meth-amphetamine, but it lets you keep your teeth!"
Adannor (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#3581: Nov 3rd 2015 at 10:35:12 PM

Yes, and don't forget the merit if you're playing RAW.

(If your ST is doing a sensible thing and discarding the bullshit merit, that mandatory dot will also likely be just ye regular dots in the MA of your choice.)

Lanceleoghauni Cyborg Helmsman from Z or R Twice Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: In my bunk
#3582: Nov 3rd 2015 at 11:13:03 PM

It DID seem really, really weird to make "being able to do martial arts in a heavily asia inspired setting" require you to dump SO MUCH of your starting resources into it for like, no real reason.

Looking at the MA in the book, there's no indication of power greater than just "I hit things with my sword impossibly good" to compensate for the higher price. At least not at the same cost as "I have the resources of a successful dynast"

edited 3rd Nov '15 11:25:33 PM by Lanceleoghauni

"Coffee! Coffeecoffeecoffee! Coffee! Not as strong as Meth-amphetamine, but it lets you keep your teeth!"
Elfive (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lanceleoghauni Cyborg Helmsman from Z or R Twice Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: In my bunk
#3584: Nov 3rd 2015 at 11:51:28 PM

I mean they clearly want Martial Arts to require dedication, but I'm wondering if OOC it's WORTH the hassle considering you can just get /literally any other combat skill/ and be as effective if not moreso with less investment.

"Coffee! Coffeecoffeecoffee! Coffee! Not as strong as Meth-amphetamine, but it lets you keep your teeth!"
Adannor (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#3585: Nov 4th 2015 at 12:25:20 AM

[up][up][up] Or rather "doing a couple useful but specific tricks with swords but excluding the use of every other weapon that generalists can easily". That alone is a price enough really.

[up]Yes, they bungled it up and failed the promises of fixing the past issue of how there isn't really anybody actually having those martial arts traditions in the world.

They planned to include mote-less Techniques in the MA Styles, giving mortals a reason to have them, and the merit may have been a price for them, but they got removed during development. Now there is no reason whatsoever for mortals to pay the price of dedication themselves to kung-fu.

edited 4th Nov '15 12:26:14 AM by Adannor

rikalous World's Cutest Direwolf from Upscale Mordor (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
World's Cutest Direwolf
#3586: Nov 4th 2015 at 12:26:37 AM

Depends on whether or not that "carnivorous beard" MA becomes a real thing.

Elfive (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#3587: Nov 4th 2015 at 1:48:41 AM

True. It sounds like martial arts aren't for the powergamers. They're for roleplayers who want to play a character with a specific flavour of fighting style, efficiency be damned.

Lanceleoghauni Cyborg Helmsman from Z or R Twice Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: In my bunk
#3588: Nov 4th 2015 at 3:12:28 AM

That's why my Eclipse caste accountant has Crane style. I like the idea of him being a sort of official looking, but nonthreatening kind of guy. The kindly sifu who gets attacked by the Wyld hunt in a tea house and fends them off with nothing but his chopsticks without spilling his drink.

My current pencilling out of the character. He'd be taking Infallible Messenger as his terrestrial level spell

edited 4th Nov '15 3:17:52 AM by Lanceleoghauni

"Coffee! Coffeecoffeecoffee! Coffee! Not as strong as Meth-amphetamine, but it lets you keep your teeth!"
Adannor (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#3590: Nov 4th 2015 at 7:09:23 AM

Backer PDF aka public beta is what's out.

rikalous World's Cutest Direwolf from Upscale Mordor (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
World's Cutest Direwolf
#3591: Nov 4th 2015 at 10:37:29 AM

[up][up][up][up]I've certainly taken non-mechanically-optimal options because they were just that fucking cool, but they weren't mechanically suboptimal because they were gated off behind half my starting background dots.

Yes, they bungled it up and failed the promises of fixing the past issue of how there isn't really anybody actually having those martial arts traditions in the world.
Mortal martial artists have been a thing even when the mechanics didn't differentiate between them and tavern brawlers. Lyta Exalted in the middle of a martial arts bout and Deled in the middle of a particular kata, just off the top of my head. I'm pretty sure Swan's Scroll of Exalts bio made reference to him being a martial artist as a mortal, too.

Adannor (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#3592: Nov 4th 2015 at 10:54:51 AM

The promise was to have them actually mechanically exist. As they are now, they don't. The fluff claims are completely unsupported mechanically. Just like in 2e there were "long traditions" and "schools" of martial arts which couldn't exist because any CMA had a scant handful of practicioners in history.

As it stands now, mechanics represent that mortals are able to learn alleged martial art styles, at great cost and effort, which gives them absolutely nothing over a guy that just generally learns how to fight.

rikalous World's Cutest Direwolf from Upscale Mordor (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
World's Cutest Direwolf
#3593: Nov 4th 2015 at 11:10:39 AM

If they'd kept in the mechanical clusterfuck that Techniques reportedly turned into, it'd eat a bunch of wordcount and everyone would complain about it anyway. Not having them sounds like the lesser evil to me.

Also, it's not like the dots on a character sheet were ever, or ever will be as long as they keep the Storyteller system, the most super-accurate measurement of how the people in-universe experience these skills. There are, after all, more than five distinct and discrete levels of training in [INSERT SKILL HERE] across the spectrum from "stick them with the pointy end" to "world-class master."

Also also, in the kind of fiction Exalted draws from if you practice a martial art for the sole purpose of being mechanically optimal you're an asshole who is going to get beaten up by the hero while inspiring music plays. So mortal practitioners either take it up at least partly for other reasons or eat a lot of Justice Punches.

Adannor (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#3594: Nov 4th 2015 at 11:21:02 AM

You learn martial arts to be distinct from a guy that doesn't. Without charms, you are not. A kung fu practicioner has zero difference from a regular soldier. That kinda violates the claims of MA being something special.

CountDorku Behold my legal acumen! from the depths of insanity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Behold my legal acumen!
#3595: Nov 4th 2015 at 11:26:09 AM

You don't get underground soldiering tournaments. You do get underground martial arts tournaments.

Adannor (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#3596: Nov 4th 2015 at 11:39:33 AM

And every guy in there has nothing to differentiate themselves from the soldier guy or each other unless they are Exalted.

edited 4th Nov '15 11:40:00 AM by Adannor

CountDorku Behold my legal acumen! from the depths of insanity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Behold my legal acumen!
#3597: Nov 4th 2015 at 11:55:32 AM

I find it hard to get upset that mortal kung fu dude does not get fifty pages of subsystems to himself in a game that is already so crunchy I'll have to use a FATE hack or something to run it with my meatspace group, who never, ever read more than the most basic rules.

rikalous World's Cutest Direwolf from Upscale Mordor (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
World's Cutest Direwolf
#3598: Nov 4th 2015 at 11:56:08 AM

And the disciplined soldier has nothing to differentiate himself from the raging barbarian who has nothing to differentiate himself from the crime lord's enforcer. It's not just combat skills, either. A Lore score can represent a classical education, or it can represent decades of experience reading the weather and the signs of game. Performance can be anything from satire to strip tease. Mortal skills being less distinct in the mechanics than the fluff is not exactly a martial-arts-only thing.

Lanceleoghauni Cyborg Helmsman from Z or R Twice Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: In my bunk
#3599: Nov 4th 2015 at 12:04:29 PM

The thing about soldier vs enforcer though is, again, they don't lose FOUR DOTS OF MERITS for basically nothing.

"Coffee! Coffeecoffeecoffee! Coffee! Not as strong as Meth-amphetamine, but it lets you keep your teeth!"
Adannor (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#3600: Nov 4th 2015 at 12:06:45 PM

>A Lore score can represent a classical education, or it can represent decades of experience reading the weather and the signs of game. Performance can be anything from satire to strip tease. Mortal skills being less distinct in the mechanics than the fluff is not exactly a martial-arts-only thing.

See, those are not separate ranked skills tongue As it stands, a mortal practicioner of Silver Voiced Nightingale is a just a guy that punches you while shouting, they don't get any actual kiai or anything at all.

[up]Also that. "Being a martial artist" carries equal weight in the world to "being as wealthy as one of the Exalted nobles of the Realm".

edited 4th Nov '15 12:09:17 PM by Adannor


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