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Mr.Glass It doesn't make sense Since: Jan, 2010
It doesn't make sense
#76: Jan 22nd 2010 at 10:17:30 AM

Hi Mappi, I'm the wife that plays with the elf ball deck! I've tried Nettle Sentinel and Twinblade Slasher in my Elf deck. Despite how highly regarded the Twinblade Slasher is because of his ability, the problem is that on turn 1 he can only be a 1/1 creature, you have to wait until the next turn to cast his ability by which time I find he's already dead tongue. The Nettle Sentinel is much better in that you have a 2/2 defender turn one.

I even went as far as to try a Llanowar Augar but my husband doesn't like to play my Elf deck so I haven't been able to try him out yet! I just liked the idea that if anyone tried to mess with him I could sacrifice him to make something else better or in fact protect a creature by making them bigger when defending which the opponent hopefully won't see coming. My only snag is that I have a Warrior deck so he doesn't get the juicy Bramblewood bonus, but hey, beggars can't be choosers (damn you Wizards).

edited 22nd Jan '10 10:30:17 AM by Mr.Glass

If you don't see anything worth laughing at, pretend you see it, then laugh
Mapi "keionbu ni yokusou, nyan?" from Sakurakou Keionbu Since: Aug, 2011
"keionbu ni yokusou, nyan?"
#77: Jan 22nd 2010 at 10:20:55 AM

I had been using Nettle over Twinblade before I quit... and it seems I answered my own question: Gilt-Leaf > Vanquisher for quantity of tokens.

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Mr.Glass It doesn't make sense Since: Jan, 2010
It doesn't make sense
#78: Jan 22nd 2010 at 10:29:45 AM

I really want to try out the Gilt-Leaf Ambush card. I love the Vanquisher though, she's some scary elf poon. I'm thinking of disecting my Elf-Ball deck into two decks: Mono-Green life gain/token deck and a Green/Red Warrior Beatdown. But more than anything I want to try out the new Elf Warrior card Joraga Warcaller from the Worldwake set, I think he'll be a staple for Elf-ball decks. Plus he gets my Bramblewood's vote!

Mappi, are you using Oran-Rief in your Elf-Ball deck? I have 3 in mine and I find it incredibly useful in conjunction with the Bramblewood.

edited 22nd Jan '10 10:31:15 AM by Mr.Glass

If you don't see anything worth laughing at, pretend you see it, then laugh
Mapi "keionbu ni yokusou, nyan?" from Sakurakou Keionbu Since: Aug, 2011
"keionbu ni yokusou, nyan?"
#79: Jan 22nd 2010 at 10:31:53 AM

I quit before Oran-Rief came out, so no. I stopped using Vanquisher because a Shriekmaw owns it.

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Justice4243 Writer of horse words from Portland, OR, USA Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: Brony
Writer of horse words
#80: Jan 22nd 2010 at 10:35:05 AM

^^^^ I'm fine with playing your elf deck, you've just been insisting on playing your blue-white and Doran decks as of late.

edited 22nd Jan '10 10:35:15 AM by Justice4243

Justice is a joy to the godly, but it terrifies evildoers.Proverbs21:15 FimFiction account.
Mr.Glass It doesn't make sense Since: Jan, 2010
It doesn't make sense
#81: Jan 22nd 2010 at 10:42:00 AM

"Justice"! You naughty potato! Let's not turn this thread into a spousal fight!

Mappi, have you thought about Steely Resolve or Dense Foliage? They'll protect your elves and piss off your opponent - a winning combination. Your opponent will be sat their with a bunch of redundant cards as a result.

My Elf-Ball deck as it stands:

4x Llanowar Elves

4x Llanowar Augar / Nettle Sentinel (want to put in Joraga Warcaller)

4x Bramblewood Paragon

4x Wren's Run Vanquisher

4x Wellwisher

3x Talara's Battalion

4x Imperious Perfect

4x Steely Resolve

3x Hunting Triad

3x Elvish Promenade

16x Forest (would like a Gaea's Cradle or 2)

1x Pendelhaven

3x Oran-Rief, the Vastwood

Sideboard: 4x Jagged-Scar Archers 4x Viridian Zealot 3x Sylvan Messenger 2x Fyndhorn Elves

edited 22nd Jan '10 11:02:18 AM by Mr.Glass

If you don't see anything worth laughing at, pretend you see it, then laugh
Justice4243 Writer of horse words from Portland, OR, USA Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: Brony
Writer of horse words
#82: Jan 22nd 2010 at 10:42:22 AM

tongue You started it.

Edit: It's true! Having to throw a tarfire at opponent who has most of their life still, because that’s the best use you’ll find for it is not fun.

edited 22nd Jan '10 11:29:57 AM by Justice4243

Justice is a joy to the godly, but it terrifies evildoers.Proverbs21:15 FimFiction account.
Mapi "keionbu ni yokusou, nyan?" from Sakurakou Keionbu Since: Aug, 2011
"keionbu ni yokusou, nyan?"
#83: Jan 22nd 2010 at 10:48:49 AM

Not really because I quit thanks to the M10 rule revisions.

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Justice4243 Writer of horse words from Portland, OR, USA Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: Brony
Writer of horse words
#84: Jan 22nd 2010 at 10:51:45 AM

Many people did. Although combat is simplified, not having to worry about mana burn is actually pretty fun. Except that you can’t commit seppuku anymore.

Justice is a joy to the godly, but it terrifies evildoers.Proverbs21:15 FimFiction account.
arimnaes Falls Up Since: Apr, 2009
Falls Up
#85: Jan 22nd 2010 at 10:58:36 AM

I was indifferent to most of the revisions, including the removal of mana burn, but I really, viscerally dislike the change to combat damage. Even though Wizards almost never, ever rolls back their decisions, I'm secretly holding out hope.

Mapi "keionbu ni yokusou, nyan?" from Sakurakou Keionbu Since: Aug, 2011
"keionbu ni yokusou, nyan?"
#86: Jan 22nd 2010 at 11:00:37 AM

Worrying about mana burn became second nature for me.

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AceOfScarabs I am now a shiny stone~ from Singapore Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
I am now a shiny stone~
#87: Jan 25th 2010 at 9:29:09 AM

Eh, Mana burn. Perhaps they could reintroduce it via a global effect?

The three finest things in life are to splat your enemies, drive them from their turf, and hear their lamentations as their rank falls!
Justice4243 Writer of horse words from Portland, OR, USA Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: Brony
Writer of horse words
#88: Jan 25th 2010 at 10:25:27 AM

An enchantment that reintroduces the mechanic of mana burn may not be a bad idea to at least attempt to appease some of player’s who had decks that relied on the mechanism. However, the upcoming set looks like it’s going to have at least one card that lets you float mana between phases. Who knows how they’d have to word the “mana burn” enchantment or what rules they’d have to write just to keep confusion down to a minimum.

Speaking of confusion, from what I can, tell the biggest complaint about the M10 changes was removing the stack from combat. Wizards sacrificed one of the more complex strategy elements of the game in favor of having less people angrily sweep cards of the table while shouting “Fuck this game!” Magic is…complex, to put it lightly. And M10 tried to limit some of the more confusing elements in favor of attracting new players to the game. I don’t like some of the changes (regeneration being substantially depowered for one), but I think I actually like there being a little more logic to combat in regards to creatures can no longer block/or be blocked and then “kill themselves” (sacrifice) yet still get to deal damage and count as blocking a creature.

Changing gears back to Elf decks, one managed to place top 4 in a recent magic-league tournament. Looks like this one’s a healthy sprinkling of elves that give other elves +1/+1 with a deluge of elves that add mana acceleration to power a game ending Mirror Entity. Tribal Forcemage seems to be win mechanism #2. Props to my wife to figuring out some of the deck’s mechanics.

My beloved Goblins have placed 1st in a tournament a little over a month back. That deck is pretty close to what mine is now. I found the Stingscourger a good replacement for Mogg Fanatic considering it’s beginning to be much more likely you’re opponent is going to cast a 2/2 on their first turn over a 1/1. I still have my tarfires, however.

edited 29th Jan '10 3:10:54 PM by Justice4243

Justice is a joy to the godly, but it terrifies evildoers.Proverbs21:15 FimFiction account.
AceOfScarabs I am now a shiny stone~ from Singapore Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
I am now a shiny stone~
#89: Jan 26th 2010 at 10:11:39 AM

Tribal decks tend to suffer when the Control players start employing the power of Engineered Plague, though.

I planned at one point to rebuild Spellbomb Control into various other forms, including a WUB discard/lock variant (using Disciple to turn every broken spellbomb or Bauble into lifeloss), a W Ur aggro-control build with Shrapnel Blast (turning a spellbomb into a 5-point explosion is worth it!), and even a fast-mana Wu G variant with mass Plow Unders supplemented by Eternal Witnesses and Conjuror's Bauble (which sticks cards back in the library to avoid them getting RFG'd or simply just to pseudo-cycle).

The three finest things in life are to splat your enemies, drive them from their turf, and hear their lamentations as their rank falls!
Justice4243 Writer of horse words from Portland, OR, USA Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: Brony
Writer of horse words
#90: Jan 26th 2010 at 12:46:57 PM

The Elf deck actually has a few recovery mechanisms, I noticed. Goblin decks usually don’t (unless they splash black and add Patriarch's Bidding )).

It helps to hold on to a card or two if think your opponent can wipe the battlefield clean.

edited 26th Jan '10 12:56:42 PM by Justice4243

Justice is a joy to the godly, but it terrifies evildoers.Proverbs21:15 FimFiction account.
AceOfScarabs I am now a shiny stone~ from Singapore Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
I am now a shiny stone~
#91: Feb 22nd 2010 at 4:54:36 PM

Green players can afford to toss non-tribal threats in because of their crazy mana (like Jamie Wakefield's classical Secret Force, which just wins with large critters).

My personal favourite "tribeless" Green deck is the Mirrodin classical Tooth and Nail, which to me feels like some kind of neo-Secret Force sans dinosaur tokens. From Akroma to the Triskelion/Mephidross Vampire combinations, Platinum Angel/Leonin Abunas to Sundering Titan/Kiki-Jiki, T&N is amazingly brutal. Not many decks let you climb up to 7GG in 4 turns to literally gg your opponent, and if you need to you can just hardcast a 11/11 indestructible trampler and put them on a very short damage clock, and wins off your support team of Eternal Witnesses and other 2/1-power critters are not unheard of. Aggro-combo is awesome, innit?

My personal build is currently an Urzatron Mirrodin/Kamigawa build T&N which is rebuilt to operate even with no forests in the starting hand. As I am semi-retired and my deck is now obsolete (except when playing seasonally), I feel that it is safe for me to leak my own super-secret tech:

  • Instead of merely using the 1G Sakurai-tribe Elders (laughs), I employ Wayfarer's Baubles (1, 2T+sacrifice for Rampant Growth effect) for the early game so if I get a no-forest opening hand, I can still afford not to mulligan.
    • Higher up the mana curve, I stuck the Solemn Simulacrum to add more Forest-thinning power, because he is still juuuust fine despite his (4) mana cost (Comes into play with a Rampant Growth effect, draws you a card when he hits the grave).
  • Some plains and some Sacred Grounds in the sideboard ensure I can fair better in G2/3 versus Land D. Boseiju (T, pay life to add mana that makes spells counterspell-resistant) goes in the maindeck to stuff Blue players packing countermagic.
  • To combat Obliterate and colour denial, I run Darksteel Ingots (3 Artifact, taps for any colour of mana, indestructible)...
    • ...Which I pair with a City of Brass (or two) to ensure I have the coloured mana if I need to hardcast Kiki-Jiki.
  • In theory I could stuff Time of Need (1G Sorc, tutors a Legendary Creature and puts it in your hand) in to tutor up legends, but T&N is crowded as it is, so I left it out.
  • Plow Under plus Eternal Witness is evil. Pair that combo up with more recurrance (Eternal Slide abuses their own Slide effects for it, while I can abuse Kiki-Jiki for it!) and it becomes a virtual death sentence.
  • My lower-forest-count build also protects me from my own Sundering Titan's land destruction.

Of course, my deck has been so finely tuned, I haven't been able to optimise it any further wihout completely rebuilding it.

edited 22nd Feb '10 4:58:56 PM by AceOfScarabs

The three finest things in life are to splat your enemies, drive them from their turf, and hear their lamentations as their rank falls!
Blackmoon Since: May, 2009
#92: Feb 23rd 2010 at 9:33:52 PM

Hey. I don't usually post in this part of the forum, but this deck of mine feels almost complete- I just think it's missing something. Any suggestions?

Revised decklist is:

Land:
1x Cabal Coffers
24x Swamp
Creatures:
2x Nightmare
2x Shriekmaw
2x Chainer, Dementia Master
1x Toshiro Umezawa
1x Moonglove Changeling
1x Faceless Butcher
1x Ascendant Evincar
2x Mesmeric Fiend
1x Hypnox
Instants:
2x Tendrils of Corruption
2x Unmake
3x Doom Blade
Sorceries:
2x Sign in Blood
2x Consume Spirit
4x Corrupt
Enchantments:
1x Lethal Vapors
1x Sanguine Bond
1x Night of Souls' Betrayal
Artifacts:
1x Demon's Horn
1x Ashnod's Altar
1x Life Chisel
1x Mirari
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
61 cards total.

Lessee... main theme of the deck is creature death and lifegain, both of these to fuel Chainer's ability. Nightmares are in there to fuck with opponents and get buffed by Chainer; Ascendant Evincar is there to cancel out the effects of Night of Souls' Betrayal. Ashnod's Altar is less of a mana pump and more a way to fuck the stack over and make Faceless Butcher and Mesmeric Fiends' removal abilities permanent; Life Chisel is there so I can take big creatures off my opponents and then sacrifice them for lifegain.

I feel like it could use more stuff with cost X, because of Cabal Coffers, but I also feel like it could be streamlined down to 60 or 65 cards. Thoughts?

edited 23rd Feb '10 11:12:39 PM by Blackmoon

Mapi "keionbu ni yokusou, nyan?" from Sakurakou Keionbu Since: Aug, 2011
"keionbu ni yokusou, nyan?"
#93: Feb 23rd 2010 at 9:35:32 PM

I'll think of what you can remove, but please try to cut the deck down to 60 cards max. I find it harder to get what you need in a deck with more than 60 cards, even with fetchlands.

Edit: You should probably reduce your lands. 30 Swamps is waaay too much mana. Your mana curve is leaning towards flood levels.

edited 23rd Feb '10 9:37:37 PM by Mapi

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Blackmoon Since: May, 2009
#94: Feb 23rd 2010 at 9:39:41 PM

I was thinking that. I could've sworn I only had 25 in there, but then I went and recounted...

catch_the_sun Perpetually Peckish from Shidoni Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Perpetually Peckish
#95: Feb 23rd 2010 at 9:39:42 PM

It's usually 24 Lands, then 36 other crap you want. I think you can stand cutting down on creatures.

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Mapi "keionbu ni yokusou, nyan?" from Sakurakou Keionbu Since: Aug, 2011
"keionbu ni yokusou, nyan?"
#96: Feb 23rd 2010 at 9:41:37 PM

I usually have 21-23 lands. However I think I reduced it to 20 lands in my current ELVES! deck.

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Blackmoon Since: May, 2009
#97: Feb 23rd 2010 at 9:43:20 PM

Duly noted. I'm not sure about having Shizo, Death's Storehouse in there. It's gotten me out of a pinch a couple times, just by giving Ascendant Evincar and the like fear, but it mostly cuts down on the amount of swamps I have for stuff like Cabal Coffers and Nightmare.

catch_the_sun Perpetually Peckish from Shidoni Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Perpetually Peckish
#98: Feb 23rd 2010 at 9:43:45 PM

Okay, not really seeing why you have Sadistic Sacrament.

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Blackmoon Since: May, 2009
#99: Feb 23rd 2010 at 9:46:24 PM

A friend suggested I put it in there. The rationale was basically that if I can afford the kicker and copy it with Mirari, I can exile half of someone's deck, which has happened more than once. It's just not something I like to rely on.

Mapi "keionbu ni yokusou, nyan?" from Sakurakou Keionbu Since: Aug, 2011
"keionbu ni yokusou, nyan?"
#100: Feb 23rd 2010 at 9:46:49 PM

Same here. If you're gonna use that, have at least 2 or 3 of them. My decks usually have 3 or a set of a certain creature or spell.

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