When They Cry - Higurashi and Umineko

That actually makes some sense. I may need to look at Umineko again in another light.

Adding to the fun is how Bernkastel has BOTH fantasy Enemy Without and mundane explanations symbolic of heartless people who tear the guts out of a narrative, demonization, and a VICIOUS Deconstruction of the way authors treat their character that are equally valid.

Simpliest solution: BOTH the fantasy and mundane explainations for the witches are valid....at the same time. Fantasy for narrative purposes, and mundane for the metafiction aspects. This applies mainly to Bernkastel and Lambdadelta.

The new story involving Takano seems to imply the fantasy explaination is valid, for it is the easiest way for the story to work given Umineko.

edited 2nd Jun '16 12:37:47 PM by magnum12

Umineko doesn't have a lot of choices compared to other visual novels. But that last choice is probably the best choice ever in a visual novel.

I agree.

Umineko is out on Steam.

Nobody seems to have noticed, but TRianThology has a release date. And it's in THREE WEEKS.

…And the opening left me even more confused than before. It seems the sprites will be made by several artists like in RGD. Oh, and there will be a Rika expy, of course. Some characters in the OP should look familiar to anyone who follows 07E closely.

The three stories are "Country Girl", "Vespio 2834" and "School Love (Though Calling It That Is a Bit Ridiculous) Adventure". And I have no f-ing idea how these three universes are gonna be connected, seeing how different they look.

I don't know if I'll be able to take the second story seriously with Ryukishi's art, but then again, he managed to make me take Higurashi and Umineko seriously, so…

edited 6th Aug '16 3:20:22 PM by Lyendith

Mangagamer is localizing Ougon. I hope they announce Umineko's fandiscs in the future.

What fandiscs?

(otherwise, I downloaded the Trial version of TAL but it didn't figure out how to read the damn thing yet… I'll post a quick review when I do.)

Umineko Hane and Umineko Tsubasa.

Oh. >.<

Err, on another note, there's gonna be a Higurashi drama apparently? —´.`—

And for those interested, the first chapter of Hotarubi is translated. Lots of similarities with Umineko's beginning (family gathering, male MC with a remarried father, money problems, the shaming scene, the telephone not working) but the vibe is very different, somewhat.

edited 11th Nov '16 9:00:15 AM by Lyendith

So apparently, R07 announced on Twitter that WTC 5 had started production, and that it would be "completely different" from Higurashi and Umineko.

07E is getting quite prolific lately. I still haven't read Trianthology because of some problem with my PC. .−.

Some not-quite-news about the new When They Cry.

https://rokkenjima.org/when-they-cry-5-teaser-page-published/

…Not much to work from, but it's still nice to have the confirmation that yes, it's a thing.

I have two Umineko questions:

1. So the Chiru aren't the same as the answer arcs of Higurashi? Are they the core arcs?

2. Is Umineko a postmodernist take on murder mysteries? Or is it a meta mystery? I am not a humanities/literature major so I need to know how to approach the material.

The answer to 1 is yes.

To 1…It depends. Ep 5-8 of the Visual Novel clearly aren't "answer arcs" in the Higurashi sense. Episode 8 in the manga however, gives more explicit answers, so it kinda is.

To 2, I'd say... both? Let's just say that the core question is why the murders happen, more than how. And it questions the logic inherent to classic murder mysteries, as well as the notion of trust between the author and the reader.

edited 28th May '17 5:42:56 AM by Lyendith

I see.

Read the manga for EP 8 rather than the VN. It answers quite a lot of unresolved questions the novel left. Including some that tore the fanbase apart.

Though it does leave two plot holes. One through a MAJOR inconsistency between certain deaths in the 2nd and 4th novel ( Shannon's). The 2nd being that one red truth in 8 basically means that Beatrice lied in red in the 4th novel.

Which one?

About the Episode 8 manga, you should be warned that the first chapter's English translation is really, really bad. And, well, the English scanlations have quite a few translation issues in general.

edited 28th Jul '17 12:19:57 PM by Lyendith

The red truth in ep 8 (the explanation to the solution of ep 6 and the meaning of the final red truth in ep 6) that causes Beatrice to lie in red is The number of people are defined as bodies.

The red truth that Beatrice lied with is therefore Battler's sin is not against Beatrice. Since Shannon and Beatrice are the same person and the number of people was defined as bodies, therefore Battler's sin actually IS against Beatrice.

Massive plot hole.

You're misunderstanding something here.

The "number of people = number of bodies" applies only to Bernkastel's game in Episode 8. In Episode 6, the red truths "there are 18 people" and "there are 17 people" were both valid because Erika considers the "number of names" and Battler and Béato invoke "the number of bodies" (deliberately, to create a contradiction). But even that's irrelevant, since the Witch is never counted among "the number of humans", by definition. So none of that invalidates the red truth that Battler did not sin against "Beatrice". Don't forget that red truths are flexible and largely subjective: in that scene, from Sayo's point of view, "the human Shannon" and "the Witch Beatrice" are two distinct personnas.

edited 29th Jul '17 5:06:04 AM by Lyendith

I disagree. IIRC the manga of ep 8 is vastly different from the novel, for reasons later on.

For example, the Closed Room Barrage is replaced with an Erika vs Battler scenario (intended to explain the solution of ep 6 in a way that explains the whole series), and this alternate scenario is where the red truth in question comes from.

Given the combination of the "novel specific" vs "series wide" (like the ep 4 Kinzo Red Truth) and the intention behind the manga version of ep 8 (mend the Broken Base via a full explanation of the truth), it'd be safe to conclude that the red truth in question is intended to be a "series wide" red truth. Said "series wide" red truth ultimately means that Beatrice lied in red.

Another difference of course being that Rokinjima Prime being outright stated to be ep 7 via a Beatrice red truth about how her screw up ended being the root cause of everything.

edited 29th Jul '17 5:47:47 PM by magnum12

As I said, you're confusing that with the rules of Bern's game. The two red truths at the end of E6 are both valid (otherwise Erika would have been cut mid-sentence), so the "count by name" obviously still applies, even in the manga. That's actually the basis of her whole reasoning when she solves the damn thing.

edited 29th Jul '17 5:59:49 PM by Lyendith

You may heard this before but is it necessary to familiarize yourself with mystery stories to understand Umineko's commentary on the mystery genre? I really was more attracted to the character designs and 'idea' of Umineko rather than the actual mystery in the game.

Hmm... "commentary of mystery" is only one of the ways you can look at Umineko. It always has at least two or three layers going on in each moment, so even if you're uninterested in mystery, you might find plenty of things that grab your attention.

I'm not really interested in mystery either, but the story grabbed me more and more as it went on, and I loved the second half (though I'm talking about the manga, I don't have the patience for visual novels).

edited 27th Dec '17 5:42:20 AM by Cozzer