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CompassionateSadist from some other place Since: Sep, 2009
#426: Feb 24th 2011 at 1:48:27 PM

[up][up]-nosebleeds-

edited 24th Feb '11 1:48:36 PM by CompassionateSadist

Icarael is All Elite from The Taguig Sprawl Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
is All Elite
#427: Feb 28th 2011 at 5:36:47 AM

[up][up] Why do Bishibooru's rules make you sad?

Anyway, let's talk about what our major turn-ons are when it comes to yaoi. Also, more smut.

"Stealing is a crime and drugs is a crime too BUT if you steal drugs the two crimes cancel out and it’s like basically doing a good."
Chagen46 Dude Looks Like a Lady from I don't really know Since: Jan, 2010
#428: Feb 28th 2011 at 6:00:33 AM

Please tell me I'm not the only to ship male characters he created himself.

"Who wants to hear about good stuff when the bottom of the abyss of human failure that you know doesn't exist is so much greater?"-Wraith
CompassionateSadist from some other place Since: Sep, 2009
Icarael is All Elite from The Taguig Sprawl Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
is All Elite
#430: Feb 28th 2011 at 6:17:08 AM

[up][up] You Are Not Alone.

Also, what I'd really like to see in yaoi is a sex scene where both participants are enjoying it, where it's not just about titillation, but about making emotional connections between the characters (and by extension, the audience). You know, where the uke isn't a weepy weakling while the aggressive "RAR I RAEP U" seme sticks it in. (I love alliteration.)

I mean, I can understand a few involuntary tears because you're "exerting" yourself. But dear Imperator Librarius, does the uke have to be like a leaky faucet everytime he gets effed-in-the-ay? That! Is! NOT! HOW! GAY! WORKS!

I mean, take this story, Nerves. There's sex, yes, but it's a moment of character development and heartwarming. It doesn't just come out of nowhere, which is good if you want PWP, but not if you want story! Or development! Or likeable characters you can give a damn about even when they're not screwing like bunnies! And it doesn't make the sex crappy: no, it's still hot as hell!

That, fangirls and fanboys, is how you do mansex, people!'

... Sorry, ranting. I just got into watching Atop The Fourth Wall and I think Linkara's style is rubbing off on me.

edited 28th Feb '11 6:27:43 AM by Icarael

"Stealing is a crime and drugs is a crime too BUT if you steal drugs the two crimes cancel out and it’s like basically doing a good."
Chagen46 Dude Looks Like a Lady from I don't really know Since: Jan, 2010
#431: Feb 28th 2011 at 6:18:06 AM

I like it when that happens....

"Who wants to hear about good stuff when the bottom of the abyss of human failure that you know doesn't exist is so much greater?"-Wraith
Tumbril Since: Feb, 2010
#432: Feb 28th 2011 at 6:07:22 PM

^ I sort of agree, in some cases...but on the other hand, rape-y stuff makes me want to scream Stop Being Stereotypical. It's annoying that the way it is now, yaoi fiction is always going to be the land of "those annoying teenage fangirls that don't care about actual homosexuals and just like the idea of hot guys raping each other".

Tumblr here.
Drakyndra Her with the hat from Somewhere Since: Jan, 2001
Her with the hat
#433: Mar 1st 2011 at 3:09:02 AM

It depends what sort of fic you read. There's some really dumb shallow stuff, but some of the best character development I've seen has also come from slash/yaoi, too.

For a good yaoi fic, I'd recommend Last Rites, which is a Code Geass Suzaku/Lelouch fic, which has really good characterisation, no rape and no weepy uke. Just lovely emotional and character driven sex.

The owner of this account is temporarily unavailable. Please leave your number and call again later.
myrdschaem Since: Dec, 2010
#434: Mar 1st 2011 at 6:20:34 AM

@Icarael: I'm a bit uneasy with the "NO FEMALES NO HET" rule and how they phrased it. It's appropriate for the side but you can say it nicer and not like females are some kind of disease...
Anyway, if we're exchanging great slash stories I'm linking "Bird of Prey" (no relation to the actual comic book - it's Nolan!verse Batman/Gordon.)

[down]What you said.

edited 1st Mar '11 9:46:36 AM by myrdschaem

elemcee Since: Dec, 2009
#435: Mar 1st 2011 at 9:44:18 AM

Het Is Ew bothers me a little. I can understand why they wouldn't want women in the galleries, though.

fourteenwings ^_^ from Clad 6 Since: May, 2010
^_^
#436: Mar 2nd 2011 at 10:17:24 AM

DAMMIT TVTROPES I WAS OVER THIS!

I actually quit... but now...

Screw self control I'm reading that Batman fic.

edited 2nd Mar '11 10:17:59 AM by fourteenwings

Infinity...
myrdschaem Since: Dec, 2010
#437: Mar 2nd 2011 at 10:41:00 AM

[up] Sounds like it's my fault? Sorry ^^"""

edited 2nd Mar '11 10:41:08 AM by myrdschaem

Usht Lv. 3 Genasi Wizard from an arbitrary view point. Since: Feb, 2011
Lv. 3 Genasi Wizard
#438: Mar 2nd 2011 at 12:57:16 PM

I now know who on these forums have a 78% chance of being women. Anyway, I fail to see a better topic to ask this question, so here is goes:

I, a straight male, have two gay males in a story that I'm working on. The problem is, I have no clue how to write them. Every time I try, one definitely comes off as being the wife, which is exactly what I don't want. I won't mention the exact nature of their relationship to avoid giving you all a colored view of what I'm writing, but any hints on where to start looking for good examples of how to handle this or how to even begin handle such a romance?

edited 2nd Mar '11 12:57:56 PM by Usht

The thing about making witty signature lines is that it first needs to actually be witty.
Sparkysharps Since: Jan, 2001
#439: Mar 2nd 2011 at 3:58:39 PM

^ Well, in all honesty, that's probably a better question to ask gay men than yaoi fangirls (even us sane ones). But, hey, I've got half the personal experience (the gay/bi part, not the man part) so I might as well try to offer something.

Referring to your characters as Bob and Steve for a moment, try to create and flesh out the characters of Bob and Steve before you focus on the nature and dynamic of their relationship. See if you can imagine what Bob would be like and how he'd act in a story where Steve simply did not exists. This might help you think in terms of "what's Bob like as a person?" and less like "how is Bob different from Steve?", the latter of which might incline you to masculinize or feminize one of them in order to deepen the contrast between the two. Once you've got both of them down, then work on their relationship and how they interact.

Usht Lv. 3 Genasi Wizard from an arbitrary view point. Since: Feb, 2011
Lv. 3 Genasi Wizard
#440: Mar 2nd 2011 at 4:18:17 PM

Hmm, good point, I never considered the fact that as they are now that they're rather incompatible. Writing homosexual romance of my own gender is rather hard... Of course that just leave the question, do I rewrite their personalities or have the two have a different, non-romantic relationship?

I already all of your answers to that one. But regardless, thanks for the help.

edited 2nd Mar '11 4:18:56 PM by Usht

The thing about making witty signature lines is that it first needs to actually be witty.
Sparkysharps Since: Jan, 2001
#441: Mar 2nd 2011 at 6:50:49 PM

Either one's an option, depending on the story. That being said, if you're going to be rewriting the characters, your question tree should probably start with things like "Why wouldn't these two make a good romantic couple?" "What would have to change in order for their relationship to make sense" "Why would these changes make their relationship make more sense?" "Will they still be Bob and Steve if I make those changes?"

(Of course, this will probably lead you to annoying, hard-to-answer questions like "what is love?". In that case, the best info I can offer to that is to google "similarity attraction hypothesis" and "triangular theory of love")

edited 2nd Mar '11 6:51:08 PM by Sparkysharps

snailbait bitchy queen from psych ward Since: Jul, 2010
bitchy queen
#442: Mar 2nd 2011 at 7:19:58 PM

one definitely comes off as being the wife

Ugh, don't do this. I know you're not trying to, but I hate how a lot of straight people have to categorize gay relationships as "one's the man and the other's a woman".

Just write them like any other person? I dunno. You can ask me anything if you want (having been in a same-sex relationship).

"Without a fairy, you're not even a real man!" ~ Mido from Ocarina of Time
Chagen46 Dude Looks Like a Lady from I don't really know Since: Jan, 2010
#443: Mar 2nd 2011 at 7:55:53 PM

How uncommon is the "man-woman" dynamic in gay relationships anyway? It must have some basis in reality—if an extremely tenous one—, given that it people propagate it so much.

Also, I'm bi and I still like the Seme/Uke dynamic. What exactly does this say of me?

"Who wants to hear about good stuff when the bottom of the abyss of human failure that you know doesn't exist is so much greater?"-Wraith
Sparkysharps Since: Jan, 2001
#444: Mar 2nd 2011 at 8:09:55 PM

It must have some basis in reality—if an extremely tenous one—, given that it people propagate it so much.

You'd be surprised at how many blatantly untrue and inaccurate ideas are popular, and how easily they're perpetuated. "Well, the stereotype exist, so there must be some grain of truth to it" is a very stupid position to take.

Morven Nemesis from Seattle, WA, USA Since: Jan, 2001
Nemesis
#445: Mar 3rd 2011 at 12:35:02 AM

It used to be more true, because for many, the only concept of a relationship they really had was that one. And think, for that matter, how much more like that heterosexual couples used to be, and how much less so they are now — mostly because gender roles for women are not quite so narrow as they used to be.

That said, pretending this never happened and doesn't happen is retconning a bit more than I'm comfortable with.

A brighter future for a darker age.
Sparkysharps Since: Jan, 2001
#446: Mar 3rd 2011 at 1:31:44 AM

^ You're right, it's just the logic of "Stereotypes wouldn't exist if they weren't in someway true" is something of a Berserk Button of mine.

MrAHR Ahr river from ಠ_ಠ Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Ahr river
#447: Mar 3rd 2011 at 7:52:27 AM

Since traits have been assigned to 'females' and 'males' it is inevitable that if you get two people together, one person will be more 'feminine' or 'masculine' than the other, just because of the fact they are different people. So no matter what you do and how manly you write them, unless you write them as clones, they will somehow fit a standard wife/husband role, just because of how many traits and archetypes we instinctually associate with it.

edited 3rd Mar '11 7:53:33 AM by MrAHR

Read my stories!
MrAHR Ahr river from ಠ_ಠ Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Ahr river
#449: Mar 3rd 2011 at 8:04:28 AM

Not necessarily. It's just something that is not completely spectacular.

Read my stories!
myrdschaem Since: Dec, 2010
#450: Mar 3rd 2011 at 11:36:29 AM

Besides making them both well-rounded characters you can get away from the wife-man dynamic by showing mock-fights, -spats, -teasing with both in an active role. You can use it to get rid of having the reader thing one is the "uke" (or whatever you cal it) in a relationship. Dissolve the thing without a clear winner by letting them laugh or whatever. *instant role-busting end*


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