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M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#851: Feb 26th 2021 at 10:09:07 PM

Eh, still not the creepiest take on Mickey I've seen.

Disgusted, but not surprised
TwinBird Dunkies addict from Eastern Mass Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Dunkies addict
#852: Mar 1st 2021 at 9:55:21 PM

Totally a Coincidence

Uh... yikes. I wonder, is Gris's grandfather his father or Gris's mother's?

My posts make considerably more sense read in the voice of John Ratzenberger.
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#854: Mar 2nd 2021 at 11:03:00 AM

[up]

Yeah, definitely father. And I'll admit, I can understand some of the guy's position, at least in regards to the non-binary stuff - I'll freely admit gender identity is something I don't have a great grasp of (as opposed to sexual orientation), but I also get the feeling that he's tried to get the round peg in the square hole in the past, which would lead to additional, justified backlash from the Troubled Teen.

[down]

That's part of why I potholed to Troubled Teen, because this would be a legit grievance mingled in with what might otherwise be stereotypical "angsty/moody teen" behavior, which could exacerbate the latter.

Edited by ironballs16 on Mar 2nd 2021 at 3:12:02 PM

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
FuzzyBoots from Outlying borough of Pittsburgh (there's a lot of Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
#855: Mar 2nd 2021 at 11:39:37 AM

Part of the problem is that, as outside observers, we don't really know how long Gris has fine by that name, or how often such naming mistakes are made. I mean, the default assumption in Something Positive is that everyone is a raging asshole (including the main cast) 90% of the time, but I could also see this as an honest slipup (my parents occasionally called me the wrong name and I haven't even changed mine) followed by the "God, you never get anything right! Remember that thing you did three years ago?"

Wackd Since: May, 2009
#856: Mar 2nd 2021 at 12:36:09 PM

I have faith in Milholland's grasp on things that he's not gonna write a storyline in which a queer character assumes they're being persecuted for their identity with no good justification. If the point was just "Gris is being a jerk to their dad for spurious reasons", he would've picked a different point of contention.

Edited by Wackd on Mar 2nd 2021 at 3:37:02 PM

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#857: Mar 2nd 2021 at 1:34:19 PM

[up]

I'm just hoping for some Parents as People in this situation - as I said, I'm pretty well-versed in the oddities of orientation (Kinsey Scale, etc.), but even as liberal as I am, some of the gender identity stuff can confuse me, so I can sympathize with Gris' father being unsure of how to handle the situation, especially since there are cases in which someone's just jumping on a bandwagon or genuinely going through a "It's Just A Phase" period, which Gris' father would be more familiar with.

As an impersonal example, I'm genuinely unsure how to refer to Tedd of El Goonish Shive in the abstract - if I'm referring to the character when they're presenting as one gender or another, it's easy, but in a generalized sense? No clue. Speaking of, does anyone know if Gris has given out the proper pronouns? I vaguely recall some hint of it (maybe during the rafter conversation?), but can't remember for certain.

Edited by ironballs16 on Mar 2nd 2021 at 4:37:15 AM

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
Wackd Since: May, 2009
#858: Mar 2nd 2021 at 1:42:43 PM

Gris' pronouns are they/them.

I'm fine with parents as people. But queer folks get hit with a lot of abuse, especially from people close to them. I don't want a plotline about how we can't trust Gris' assessment of the way they're treated because their dad is trying so hard. And I trust Milholland isn't giving us that.

since there are cases in which someone's just jumping on a bandwagon or genuinely going through a "It's Just A Phase" period, which Gris' father would be more familiar with.
Why would Gris' father be familiar with this?

I'm genuinely unsure how to refer to Tedd of El Goonish Shive in the abstract - if I'm referring to the character when they're presenting as one gender or another, it's easy, but in a generalized sense? No clue.
If you don't know how to refer to someone, ask. In this case check and see if the author of EGS has mentioned it anywhere. This isn't tremendously confusing, I don't think.

Edited by Wackd on Mar 2nd 2021 at 4:44:47 AM

Maybe you'd be less disappointed if you stopped expecting things to be Carmen Sandiego movies.
FuzzyBoots from Outlying borough of Pittsburgh (there's a lot of Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
#859: Mar 2nd 2021 at 3:35:05 PM

On the EGS topic here, they generally adopt the pronouns of how Tedd is currently transformed.

fredhot16 Don't want to leave but cannot pretend from Baton Rogue, Louisiana. Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Don't want to leave but cannot pretend
#860: Mar 2nd 2021 at 3:48:32 PM

Shive actually talked about this.

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#862: Mar 5th 2021 at 12:37:42 PM

[up][up]

Glad you took the Archive Binge plunge so I didn't have to tongue - I figured it had popped up somewhere at some point, but that's a lot of material to wade through that wouldn't be helpful to the question being asked. Same with Gris - I know roughly when they were introduced, but wouldn't be able to reliably find the associated strips, especially with the recent renaming that has actually broken a few pages due to identical names of the comics.

And with Tedd, good to know that They/Them is applicable as well - that saves a lot of headache in situations where I may want to refer to them in the abstract (e.g. - "They're in a relationship with Grace") without having to take a glance at the comic for which gender they currently are.

And the thing is, I'm 35 from a very conservative area (as in my County's GOP actually censured my Rep., John Katko, for voting to impeach Trump after January 6th, to digress a tad) - so young enough (and liberal enough) to be understanding about matters like this, but still old enough and isolated enough that it's not exactly familiar to me, if that distinction makes sense. And even that I attribute to witnessing a very near-miss with a transgender student in High School (as in, had a teacher not intervened at the prom, things could have gone horrifically wrong due to an asshat classmate of mine who'd obviously "pre-gamed" prom and tried following her into the women's room - my class advisor stopped him before anything occurred), as my 2-year-older brother is very much anti-T, but perfectly fine with L, G, and B.

And given the update, I've a feeling Gris' dad isn't being Innocently Insensitive and/or Innocent Bigot, but rather an established pattern of Why Couldn't You Be Different?

As for the "it's just a phase" thing, I was speaking in the abstract - the old "Oh, you're just acting like a hippie now because it's the 'trendy' thing to do - you'll grow out of it" sort of thing. It by no means justifies it, but understanding something =/= justifying something or saying that it's okay to do.

[down]

Exactly - that's something I struggle with with some of the + portions of the LGBT+ stuff, and in my defense, it's something even other members of the LGBT community can have issues with - No Bisexuals springs readily to mind. And to reiterate, none of this digression is meant to diminish the legitimate complaints about this exact behavior, just examine the behavior and figure out some of the underpinnings, as it were.

Edited by ironballs16 on Mar 5th 2021 at 4:56:39 AM

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
FuzzyBoots from Outlying borough of Pittsburgh (there's a lot of Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
#863: Mar 5th 2021 at 1:49:40 PM

And, admittedly, tolerance doesn't always imply belief. To use an outlandish example if your son or daughter decides that they're actually a cat stuck in human form, you might learn to address them as Mittens, but you may still privately think they're bonkers. Ditto for less outlandish examples like having a child who gets religion, or suddenly decides to cleave away from your religion.

It admittedly can still get ugly because "I believe you believe" still implies falsehood, but what can you do if you don't share their beliefs other than the best you can? And yes, I know that phrasing it as a belief rather than a simple reality is not a popular thing to do, but honestly, I feel it kind of functions like religion where you can't force someone to believe no matter how much evidence you provide.

CEOIII C-E-O-3, H-N-I-C from Franklin, PA Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: In my bunk
C-E-O-3, H-N-I-C
#864: Mar 5th 2021 at 7:01:30 PM

THIS NEEDS TO BE A TV SHOW.

I'm Charlie Owens, good night and good luck. PSNID: CEOIII 1117
ironballs16 Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
#865: Mar 6th 2021 at 5:32:25 AM

Hijinks Ensue: The Animated Series!

Edited by ironballs16 on Mar 6th 2021 at 8:32:37 AM

"Why would I inflict myself on somebody else?"
FuzzyBoots from Outlying borough of Pittsburgh (there's a lot of Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
FuzzyBoots from Outlying borough of Pittsburgh (there's a lot of Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
FuzzyBoots from Outlying borough of Pittsburgh (there's a lot of Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
FuzzyBoots from Outlying borough of Pittsburgh (there's a lot of Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
CEOIII C-E-O-3, H-N-I-C from Franklin, PA Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: In my bunk
C-E-O-3, H-N-I-C
#870: Mar 23rd 2021 at 11:43:26 AM

I sincerely hope the reader he's talking about in the tagline gets ball cancer.

I'm Charlie Owens, good night and good luck. PSNID: CEOIII 1117
FuzzyBoots from Outlying borough of Pittsburgh (there's a lot of Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#872: Mar 24th 2021 at 11:11:07 PM

It's like an even grosser Ouroboros.

Disgusted, but not surprised
FuzzyBoots from Outlying borough of Pittsburgh (there's a lot of Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
#873: Mar 27th 2021 at 7:32:05 AM

Tom Bomba-DILF

Probably technically SFW, but you may not want to bring it up while someone is at your desk.

FuzzyBoots from Outlying borough of Pittsburgh (there's a lot of Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#875: Mar 30th 2021 at 8:58:07 PM

Reminds me of this one two-sentence horror story.

"My husband nodded silently to reassure me that he had killed the next of spiders. I almost went in to thank him, but then I noticed the glint of light off the tiny threads suspending him like a marionette."

Edited by M84 on Mar 30th 2021 at 11:58:21 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised

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