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Sharysa Since: Jan, 2001
#301: Oct 30th 2011 at 8:43:21 PM

The problem is that NOBODY IS FUCKING TEACHING THEM. They haven't even gotten a baseball bat or shit!

Three healthy adults who don't even CONSIDER that they should look for a big stick so they can bash a zombie's head in? It might not kill them, sure, but it would BUY SOME TIME. Then they wouldn't have to run and hide, crying for the menfolk to save them.

That's the worst case of Fridge Logic in the series.

Kino Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Californicating
Leradny Since: Jan, 2001
#303: Oct 30th 2011 at 8:46:56 PM

Dude! I was the one complaining about them not picking up a blunt object at the very least and there were a few people who were all "SURVIVAL TRAINING TAKES TIIIIIIIIIME"

edited 30th Oct '11 8:47:05 PM by Leradny

Sharysa Since: Jan, 2001
#304: Oct 30th 2011 at 8:47:31 PM

I know that aside from food/supplies, I would DEFINITELY look for a heavy blunt object for self-defense. Moreover, blunt objects work against PEOPLE, too! Fancy that!

Maybe if they weren't all women, this would have come off as a realistic "Not everyone is going to be gung-ho zombie slayer," but right now it's coming off as "YOU Stay in the Kitchen AND LET THE MENFOLK HANDLE THINGS, SWEETIE."

Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#305: Oct 30th 2011 at 8:51:48 PM

In any survival situation where shit might want to kill you, both real and fiction, your first priority should be some primitive form of self-defense..

Talking to my civvie friends really highlights exactly how much some people have their personal safety blinders on while they are out in the world.

Oh well, more people for me to mug when the shit hits the fan.

edited 30th Oct '11 8:54:00 PM by Barkey

Swish Long Live the King Since: Jan, 2001
Long Live the King
#306: Oct 30th 2011 at 9:00:39 PM

What Shane did was dickish. But does anyone honestly believe if he doesn't do it, that either of them, or Carl for that matter, survives?

There are some very sketchy moral/ethical actions over the course of the past two seasons... But I don't really rank Shane's actions higher than handcuffing Merle to a roof and leaving him for dead...

TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#307: Oct 30th 2011 at 9:01:50 PM

leradny: Because survival training does take time. We did agree though there is nothing stopping them from picking up a blunt skull crushing weapon.

Andrea though will be the noticeable difference.

edited 30th Oct '11 9:12:44 PM by TuefelHundenIV

Who watches the watchmen?
Leradny Since: Jan, 2001
#308: Oct 30th 2011 at 9:09:31 PM

True that, Tuef. True that.

edited 30th Oct '11 9:09:49 PM by Leradny

Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#309: Oct 30th 2011 at 10:34:14 PM

Meh, my girlfriend is really wanting Shane to die, I'd say I forgave him, but I'm not even mad. I'd just chide him for not shooting for the head.

It's cool brah, survival situation. And I would never utter a god damn breath about what happened out there, ever again.

MildGuy I squeeze gats. from the bed I made. Since: Jan, 2011
I squeeze gats.
#310: Oct 30th 2011 at 11:38:29 PM

A lot of hard talk about what people'd do to screw over a friend to survive. If it's the end of the world and I'm in a group with tropers, well, after reading this thread I know to start poisoning their water supply before they shoot me the second things become slightly inconvenient for them.

As for Otis Did he really have to murder him? Couldn't he have outpaced him even with that injured leg? Nature would've taken its inevitable course in a minute or two anyway. Just offer to carry his load for him so he can move faster first.

edited 30th Oct '11 11:38:55 PM by MildGuy

Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#311: Oct 30th 2011 at 11:41:48 PM

Meh, I wouldn't want to be with tropers, most of them aren't the most survival friendly type of people.

I was just discussing that with my roomate, we already agreed that we wouldn't screw over friends we knew before the apocalypse.

MildGuy I squeeze gats. from the bed I made. Since: Jan, 2011
I squeeze gats.
#312: Oct 30th 2011 at 11:44:48 PM

But how do you know your friends wouldn't crack and leave you to die? Go it lone wolf or move in a pack, it's a huge risk either way.

Edit: I have to admit, conversations like this depress and frighten me far more than the show ever could.

edited 30th Oct '11 11:51:47 PM by MildGuy

TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#313: Oct 31st 2011 at 12:18:15 AM

-Mental Note Shoot Mild first time you meet him-

edited 31st Oct '11 12:18:24 AM by TuefelHundenIV

Who watches the watchmen?
MildGuy I squeeze gats. from the bed I made. Since: Jan, 2011
I squeeze gats.
#314: Oct 31st 2011 at 12:24:09 AM

[up] Now you're learning.

but now that you've killed me you won't learn the one water source I left unmolested.

edited 31st Oct '11 12:28:26 AM by MildGuy

TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#315: Oct 31st 2011 at 12:43:21 AM

Meh I can fend for myself water wise. I have sufficient survival training. That is one thing that bugs me about the survivalist. He couldn't find water that with some preparation would be potable.

Who watches the watchmen?
Tyyrlym Jerk from Normandy SR-2 Since: Mar, 2011
Jerk
#316: Oct 31st 2011 at 5:26:09 AM

What Shane did was dickish. But does anyone honestly believe if he doesn't do it, that either of them, or Carl for that matter, survives
That's my take on it. If he hadn't done what he did then he, Otis, and Carl all die. The episode seemed to be doing it's best to paint their injuries as equally bad. If he'd taken Otis' pack then he'd be slowed, eaten, and they'd lose the entire reason for coming, Otis would be dead and Carl would be too. It's triage really. You can't save both of you, it's not possible. One of you has to die. Shane just reached this conclusion first and acted on it before Otis did. It was the least bad outcome to a shitty situation. Now you can argue about shooting him in the head vs. leg but a live and kicking Otis would likely be a better distraction.

Meh, I wouldn't want to be with tropers, most of them aren't the most survival friendly type of people.
Because most of us are genre savy enough to know that being pragmatic lets you survive while being overly emotional about it gets you killed.

I was just discussing that with my roomate, we already agreed that we wouldn't screw over friends we knew before the apocalypse.
It's easy to say that now. In the middle of the zombie apocalypse if your roomie becomes a liability are you going to get both of you killed for him? Either that or it's a "Bro's before hoe's," type situation where you both say that to one another knowing you'd stab the other in the back first time it's beneficial to you.

Dale hit it on the head a couple episodes ago. So long as the RV is stranded no one is going to be pushing the "Needs of the many" angle with regards to Sophie that hard because it's pointless. The moment the RV can get moving though he knows the argument is going to come back up and the reason he's trying to delay it is he knows the "Needs of the many" people will be right. They can't put ten people's lives in Jeopardy for one little girl. Especially one that is more than likely dead after being lost in zombie infested woods for several days.

"Tyyr's a necessary evil. " Spirit
Mullon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson
#317: Oct 31st 2011 at 6:28:52 AM

Shane wasn't any more hobbled than Otis was. He just shot him to save his own ass. And all that time he wasted pulling off the backpack.

Never trust anyone who uses "degenerate" as an insult.
Tyyrlym Jerk from Normandy SR-2 Since: Mar, 2011
Jerk
#318: Oct 31st 2011 at 6:34:58 AM

That's the point, they were both hobbled equally and they were both going to die unless something changed. Shane changed the equation. The reason he stopped to grab the pack was that the pack was the entire reason they came in the first place.

And yes, he saved his own ass. However at that point either one of them was going to die, or all three of them were going to die. Shane triaged the situation and sacrificed Otis to save his and Carl's collective asses.

"Tyyr's a necessary evil. " Spirit
Kino Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Californicating
#319: Oct 31st 2011 at 6:46:39 AM

RE: Tropers - Off the top of my head, there are about 10 or so people i'd work with if were were in a survival situation; the rest of y'all can go kick rocks for all I care. That's what you get for taking liberal arts instead of a hard science.cool

Seriously thought, unless you're some Mad Max-esque douchebag, you're going to put your family, and your friends before yourself.

Tyyrlym Jerk from Normandy SR-2 Since: Mar, 2011
Jerk
#320: Oct 31st 2011 at 6:50:34 AM

Seriously thought, unless you're some Mad Max-esque douchebag, you're going to put your family, and your friends before yourself.
And Otis doesn't qualify as friend or family for Shane.

"Tyyr's a necessary evil. " Spirit
Kino Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Californicating
#321: Oct 31st 2011 at 6:52:54 AM

of course not, he's only know the guy for a few hours; not to mention he's the guy who shot his best friends kid. At best he's a potential ally.

edited 31st Oct '11 6:53:08 AM by Kino

Tyyrlym Jerk from Normandy SR-2 Since: Mar, 2011
Jerk
#322: Oct 31st 2011 at 6:56:38 AM

Which the trailer for the next episode seems to indicate that the good Doc's standpoint is that now that Carl's going to make it they need to get their asses moving along.

"Tyyr's a necessary evil. " Spirit
Kino Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Californicating
#323: Oct 31st 2011 at 7:01:40 AM

Exactly. Sure he'll help a kid who's bleeding out, but that doesn't mean he wasn't to share his little bit of sanctuary with a bunch of strangers.

You look out for your own, simple as that.

Tyyrlym Jerk from Normandy SR-2 Since: Mar, 2011
Jerk
#324: Oct 31st 2011 at 7:17:43 AM

Which has prompted a bit of a thought in my head. Small groups might have a better chance of surviving short term but long term they will have to start to come back together in significant groups. To put it bluntly Carl and Sophie might be fine paring off but who are their kids going to hook up with?

Getting back together in large group poses many, many problems though not the least of which is attracting more zombies due to the concentration of people. Then you've got issues with sourcing food, maintaining sanitation, and the very real concern of another outbreak wiping out most of the settlement. Makes me wonder about the long term prospects of the species in the zombie apocalypse. It's not so bad if we're talking a 28 days later style of zombie that will starve to death like a normal human would. These zombies seem to have a touch of the supernatural about them given just how long they can keep going and how much damage they can take and "survive" thinking about bicycle and tank zombies specifically. If the undead just don't quit going it makes long term survival very dicey.

"Tyyr's a necessary evil. " Spirit
Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#325: Oct 31st 2011 at 7:21:46 AM

Considering what the Doc does in the comics, I'm still waiting to see if the TV doc has anything to hide...

Anyhow, my area is pretty good for the zombie apocalypse. We're spread out, have lots and lots of farmland in our area, have good weather, a huge saltwater treatment facility(one of the largest in the world) and a massive military footprint(that I'm part of)

Me and some of the guys from the base already agreed that we'll just hole up at the base for a while until things settle in a few days and everyone is a zombie or hiding/holed up. We have enough ammunition to kill the entire city as well as a good supply of food and water. It's what makes a National Guard base better than the huge Navy base here, we're isolated in the countryside and only have one way in and out.

Just gotta roll with attrition, start running convoys to the outskirts of the city and start cleaning out zombies block by block, and eventually you'll have the city cleansed. Then it's time to drop a blockade on the pass down to us from LA, the PCH, and the north route to Santa Barbara.

The reason people get desperate and start screwing eachother over in a zombie situation is because they are on the run and desperate, we have a stronghold, a plan, supplies, and military training. We'd just make a mission out of mass zombie genocide and use that to stay focused while trying to rescue any survivors we came across. After all these movies that have the military somehow fail to hold their perimeter, it's time to prove those hollywood assholes wrong. Automatic weapons and sufficient ammunition will win the day, especially against shamblers.

edited 31st Oct '11 7:25:03 AM by Barkey


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