TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Chatterbox - Anime & Manga

Go To

shark33 Since: Nov, 2010
#10451: Sep 15th 2011 at 2:24:28 AM

[up][up][up]I don't think character designs make much of a difference in the difficulty level of a producing an anime, at least not like the actual content. The argument I see regarding animation quality is that since nothing happens there isn't much to animate which may be valid.

Still, I think it's more important the level of the actual show than "how hard it was to make".

[up][up]The thing is that people don't hate on moe becuase a character on a Grimdark show is moe, they actually find that cute and all (take Madoka's characters for example), basicly "if I like it, it isn't moe". However they seem to think that Slice of Life = Moe Crap, and thus the entire genre should burn in hell.

And is that misconception the problem, since most of these shows have their unique characteristics and all, but they simple say that it's "just another moe show" and that it's evil and it's destroying anime becuase everything is some moe crap, even if less than a fifth of the shows that air each season can be considered as Slice of Life.

Personally I prefer a show with no plot than one with a plot filled with holes and What An Idiot moments, plus I like to see things develope in a way I would expect to react or see others react to it in real life, which is the point behind a Slice of Life show.

edited 15th Sep '11 2:28:11 AM by shark33

Noimporta Since: Jan, 2001
#10452: Sep 15th 2011 at 3:54:14 AM

OK, enough of this, we've had this argument a thousand times.

  • Moe is a dumb and vague term as it is, even moreso when used as a genre classification.
  • Some people find K-On and similar shows boring.
  • Some people find that kind of show entertaining.
  • None of the above people are wrong.
  • Trends are trends, nothing is consuming the industry from inside-out.
  • Legend Of The Galactic Heroes is better than all your chinese cartoons anyway.

The end.

edited 15th Sep '11 3:56:07 AM by Noimporta

dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#10453: Sep 15th 2011 at 4:03:44 AM

[up] Ah, yeah. Good times. Good times.

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#10454: Sep 15th 2011 at 4:50:57 AM

Meh, Legend Of The Galactic Heroes doesn't sound like my thing. Doesn't help that Smokie/Excelion keeps making it seem like the best thing ever along with Hajime No Ippo.

Asuras Wrath, a game inspired by anime and manga on the other hand....

edited 15th Sep '11 4:51:55 AM by Demongodofchaos2

Watch Symphogear
dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#10455: Sep 15th 2011 at 4:54:49 AM

[up] That reminds me, I just read the first two volumes. The series is called The Fighting here and honestly, I like that title better.

Apparently Ippo's...third leg is Heavy Class.

edited 15th Sep '11 4:56:39 AM by dRoy

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
Arilou Taller than Zim from Quasispace Since: Jan, 2001
Taller than Zim
#10456: Sep 15th 2011 at 5:01:47 AM

Moe != Slice of Life. Many slice of life shows are moe, and likewise many primarily moe shows are slice-of-life, but they aren't really related otherwise.

"No, the Singularity will not happen. Computation is hard." -Happy Ent
djmaca Secret Character from Philippines Since: Apr, 2010
Secret Character
#10457: Sep 15th 2011 at 5:16:46 AM

[up]We know that.... Moe, instead, is a style. But most slices-of-life all have moe characters, which is the cause of the confusion between the two.

I like moe characters... as long as they are in the right anime....

...a little brother should belong to his older sister, right? - Orimura Chifuyu
Excelion from The Fatherland Since: Sep, 2010
djmaca Secret Character from Philippines Since: Apr, 2010
Secret Character
#10459: Sep 15th 2011 at 5:34:07 AM

[up]I stand corrected...

...a little brother should belong to his older sister, right? - Orimura Chifuyu
neobowman つ ◕_◕ ༽つ HELIX from Unidentified Proxy Since: Jul, 2009 Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
つ ◕_◕ ༽つ HELIX
#10460: Sep 15th 2011 at 5:36:09 AM

It's been a year since Amagami SS's been released. I still can't get the first OP out of my head.

djmaca Secret Character from Philippines Since: Apr, 2010
Secret Character
#10461: Sep 15th 2011 at 5:46:06 AM

SUBBER'S NEWS! SUBBER'S NEWS!

here

May GG's team dies.... except the translators, before they get to Persona 4

...a little brother should belong to his older sister, right? - Orimura Chifuyu
PikaHikariKT Since: Jan, 2001
#10462: Sep 15th 2011 at 6:05:54 AM

New Furuba! JO had a bit of a problem mixing this ep because of the kitties. X3

Anarchy just a medicine seller from Perak, Malaysia Since: Jun, 2010
just a medicine seller
#10463: Sep 15th 2011 at 10:12:23 AM

Should I be worried about the series which don't have subbing groups all over them yet?

Jhiday (Don’t ask)
#10464: Sep 15th 2011 at 1:24:13 PM

Nah, most of the time we only get announcements at best a week before the premiere. Mostly because everyone is waiting to know what Crunchyroll is gonna get rights for.

djmaca Secret Character from Philippines Since: Apr, 2010
Secret Character
#10465: Sep 15th 2011 at 5:01:25 PM

[up]And any Crunchyroll release is automatically of Horrible/Crunchy Subs....tongue

...a little brother should belong to his older sister, right? - Orimura Chifuyu
Sporkaganza I'm glasses. Since: May, 2009
I'm glasses.
#10466: Sep 15th 2011 at 5:34:59 PM

@Excelion: Ah, but this is dancing around the issue. Is moe something that the people who make anime are aware of? Yes. Are they trying to create characters and shows that invoke the moe response? Of course they are. And the question that raises, of course, is this: Is this okay? Should they be doing this?

Claiming anything else, like your little image does, is deflecting this. Technically everything that's said there is true - but as far as explaining the real issue, it's lying by way of omission.

edited 15th Sep '11 5:35:20 PM by Sporkaganza

Always, somewhere, someone is fighting for you. As long as you remember them, you are not alone.
Belian In honor of my 50lb pup from 42 Since: Jan, 2001
In honor of my 50lb pup
#10467: Sep 15th 2011 at 8:20:23 PM

If that is what sells, then yes. It IS what they should be doing.

You have to forget your personal preferences and remember that animation is not cheap. Why shouldn't they make characters/shows that people will call "moe" if that will bring in money for the company and artists?

Yu hav nat sein bod speeling unntil know. (cacke four undersandig tis)the cake is a lie!
Sporkaganza I'm glasses. Since: May, 2009
I'm glasses.
#10468: Sep 15th 2011 at 8:35:34 PM

*shrug*

Fair enough.

Always, somewhere, someone is fighting for you. As long as you remember them, you are not alone.
dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#10469: Sep 16th 2011 at 12:12:40 AM

I have problem with all those moe shows. However, my complaint is not directed to the creators, but rather the current Japanese market that demands and fuels such trend. I am assuming that Japanese don’t have much problem with all those moe things as much as western fans do.

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
djmaca Secret Character from Philippines Since: Apr, 2010
Secret Character
#10470: Sep 16th 2011 at 12:17:32 AM

[up]I never found any of your former post about moe. Please tell me why you hate moe? Or the market that demands such?

...a little brother should belong to his older sister, right? - Orimura Chifuyu
dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#10471: Sep 16th 2011 at 12:58:51 AM

I want to post this as a separate thread, but I know that because of CERTAIN TROPERS (you know who you are), it will go down to hell quickly so I'm just posting (not so rational) explanation on my (not so justified) dislike toward the genre (just to be sure; for the love of God, don't tackle me with the semantics, I'm already sick of it and just can't be bothered)

I have to admit that I can’t really come up with any solid argument against moe. Using character designs that would invoke endearment from the audience…on paper, it doesn’t sound so bad and sounds like a mere artistic choice. I speculate that it results not from the hatred on that specific genre but mixture of different reasons that might come across as insubstantial to some of you guys. I’d like to remind you guys that this also explains my dislike toward current harem genre as well.

No matter what kind of convention or trend it is, if it keeps following same formula over and over, it gets rather tiring. In many of the examples and shows with similar demographics in mind, some elements, like obligatory bath/beach scenes involving groping among females, breast size discussions, and whathaveyou. I hate many of the moe shows because they don’t have other redeeming values of their own. In case you haven’t noticed, my tolerances for fanservice plummets when there’s nothing else going on. Azumanga Daioh is the show that codified and popularized much of the aforementioned conventions. However, not only they were, at least compared to its less subtle imitations, downplayed, it had more than enough humor to make things interesting on its own. That’s the reason why I like Lucky Star and Nichijou (I’m only at the third episode but damn, it’s hilarious); they have redeeming value of their own.

Second is that in many of recent harem and moe shows, male characters are either non-existent or portrayed as fools. This is a far less substantial and more personal examples in that I’m a male and not seeing them having active or respectable role in series rather displeases me. Not having a male cast, that much I can handle (my favorite series of all time include ARIA and Azumanga Daioh and that should tell you enough) but seeing them looking like idiots, like in, you know, almost all harem series from this decade? Contemptible. I understand that there are more female consumers nowadays (although confusingly, more and more Japanese women enjoys shonen manga as well and I have no idea what the fuck to make of that :/) so having more female centric series I can understand. Then again, I don’t have any info on Japanese anime consumption demographics. I don’t know who those shows are supposed to appeal at. :/

Of course, there’s just some bits of nostalgia. I miss the time when the market was dominated with (as far as I know) shonen action series that empathized on manly actions and explosions. When that disappeared, also did the shows with more mature subject matters, such as Cowboy Bebop, Monster, Black Lagoon, and Full Metal Alchemist, which nowadays are pushed aside in favor of moe shows. Sure, you might call me out for liking actions and explosions, but at least those are more universally accepted than catering to cuteness. Also, think about it. What kind of shows did bring more world fans to anime? It certainly isn’t moe shows.

I hope this explains to you guys my dislike toward moe genre. Even if it doesn't, now you all know how I think about it.

edited 16th Sep '11 1:04:16 AM by dRoy

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
djmaca Secret Character from Philippines Since: Apr, 2010
Secret Character
#10472: Sep 16th 2011 at 1:03:08 AM

[up]Nobody responds or erase this... I'm reading. And this is his view: so you won't be able to do anything about how he looks at it.

EDIT: Done... But people: DO NOT RESPOND AND CAUSE A FIRE.

@dRoy TY for the clarification.

edited 16th Sep '11 1:04:57 AM by djmaca

...a little brother should belong to his older sister, right? - Orimura Chifuyu
Excelion from The Fatherland Since: Sep, 2010
#10473: Sep 16th 2011 at 2:03:23 AM

[up][up]So basically, you dislike massproduced shit that uses pandering to sell without any substance. Fine, so do I, but it's not limited to "moe".

For that matter, Aria is also "moeshit", but it's still one of the best anime out there. And not "despite being moeshit", but also not "because of being moeshit". It's simply a quality that becomes 'negative' only when there's nothing else. Like explosions. And why? Because it becomes cheap entertainment that doesn't actually have anything to say or tell and no feelings or ideas to convey. That doesn't make the qualities that tend to be abused for this negative in themselves. If there's that much moeshit you like (Like the KEY adaptations, Aria, Azumanga), it can't be that bad a "genre". Claiming that those you do like are suddenly "not moeshows" is a completely worthless and also wrong statement.

And yes, I'm using the word moeshit to refer to the bunch, and no, I'm not trying to insult it (whatever "it" may be).

Of course, there’s just some bits of nostalgia. I miss the time when the market was dominated with (as far as I know) shonen action series that empathized on manly actions and explosions. When that disappeared, also did the shows with more mature subject matters, such as Cowboy Bebop, Monster, Black Lagoon, and Fullmetal Alchemist, which nowadays are pushed aside in favor of moe shows.

Refer to this. To be honest, if it wasn't for a single studio consistently putting out shows that generally appeal to western fans ("mature/thought-provoking/bla") despite earning very little for it in return, we would have much, much less of said kind of anime to begin with.

tl;dr stop deviding anime by styles and genres in what you like and don't like and become a pretentious elitist weeaboo who only cares about quality, like me~

Murrl LustFatM
djmaca Secret Character from Philippines Since: Apr, 2010
Secret Character
#10474: Sep 16th 2011 at 2:04:39 AM

And here we go....sad

...a little brother should belong to his older sister, right? - Orimura Chifuyu
Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#10475: Sep 16th 2011 at 2:11:00 AM

[up][up]

Well that article just made me feel like a massive asshole for prefering older mecha anime from the 80s and 90s and lamenting to my friend they aren't as good now.


Total posts: 22,879
Top