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By popular demand. And because seriously, what the FUCK.

Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#10401: Feb 7th 2021 at 12:45:57 PM

It's true that Rei developed, but that still didnt stop people from fetishizing her as she started.

Edited by Zeromaeus on Feb 7th 2021 at 3:46:11 PM

raziel365 Anka Aquila from South of the Far West (Veteran) Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
Anka Aquila
#10402: Feb 7th 2021 at 1:54:53 PM

I'm not even a Shinji/Rei shipper (I support Asuka/Shinji actually), but I do agree that Anno was hamfisted with how he wanted the audience to see Rei as he wanted them to see her.

And even then, it required the interactions of Rei and Shinji in the previous two movies before we get to the Gut Punch of Rei Q being an Empty Shell of the Rei we knew and Yui if we got more in-universe.

Not to mention that Rei Q's relationship with Shinji boils down to a blatant escapism for the latter from his mistakes, and when he finally realises what he had done he lashes out against her without a second thought.

Instead of focusing on relatives that divide us, we should find the absolutes that tie us.
OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#10403: Feb 7th 2021 at 2:07:39 PM

Teah a bunch of people fetishize her because they see her as a submissive doormat with barely any will of her own.

Its why tons of Rei expies are like that as well.

[up] Which was the best thing for Rei Q. Realizing shes not his Ayanami and to be her own person, instead of a doll who follows orders.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Feb 7th 2021 at 2:09:10 AM

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
AmazingSpiderHam Since: Sep, 2020
#10404: Feb 7th 2021 at 5:20:35 PM

The problem with Rei is her Character Development came to a screeching halt when Asuka showed up, then the series became more interested on Asuka, and Rei only got a real focus again when it was time to kill her off.

AegisP Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man
#10405: Feb 7th 2021 at 5:27:27 PM

The only slack I am willing to cut Anno is that Rei is his MOTHER'S CLONE. Thus making it incest if they are paired together. But other than that he should be more aware of the fact that people can and do disagree with him on his interpretation of things.

As long as this flower is in my heart. My Strength will flow without end.
amitakartok Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
#10406: Feb 7th 2021 at 5:47:52 PM

As far as I'm concerned, the incest question depends entirely on just how heavily Rei's DNA had to be altered in order for her to serve as Lilith's vessel. By definition, you can't commit incest with something that isn't even your own species.

Granted, that would basically make Shinji/Rei bestiality, but still.

jouXIII The One Who Knows Many Things from Between the Multiverses (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
The One Who Knows Many Things
#10407: Feb 7th 2021 at 5:51:47 PM

Personally, when it comes to Evangelion-shipping, I prefer Israfel Special(Shinji/Rei/Asuka).

I assure you, I'm perfectly trustable person
Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#10408: Feb 8th 2021 at 2:17:22 AM

Honestly, the incest problem also depends on what kind of relationship you want Shinji and Rei to have. And we as human beings seem to have defaulted love as a sexual and procreational relationship.

Let's say Shinji and Rei are okay with living together, sharing kisses, and holding hands but are not seeking to make children of their own. Would the incest problem (which primarily revolves around genetic defects in the new generations) be a non-issue or would people still reject it? Likewise, what if Rei is infertile and could only have children via adoption?

It's these little questions that make you realize just how dominate the heterosexual, procreational view of love is in human culture.

Edited by Shadao on Feb 8th 2021 at 2:24:53 AM

LDragon2 Since: Dec, 2011
#10409: Feb 8th 2021 at 4:42:11 AM

Rei's nature as that of a Half-Human Hybrid is the reason why I don't really consider it incest, along with her soul and personality being completely different to Yui.

Rynnec Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#10410: Feb 8th 2021 at 5:12:14 AM

She still a biological clone of Yui raised by Gendo, which for all intents and purposes, makes her Shinji's sister. Preeety incesty.

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#10411: Feb 8th 2021 at 5:38:02 AM

I guess nobody's remotely interested in discussing the humorism-based temperamental assignments topic from the previous page.

RE Shinji/Rei incest: One needs to remember that all we know about the involvement of Yui's genetic material in Rei's creation is that Rei was creating by "salvaging Yui's remains" after the Contact Experiment. We're never actually told that Yui's genetic material was completely intact upon salvage. This leaves the following (non-exclusive) possibilities:

  1. Only a portion of the genome was salvagable in any form.
  2. Whatever happened in the Contact Experiment had induced significant mutations in the genome.
  3. Mere exposure to the LCL had induced significant mutations/decomposition in the genome.

Bear also in mind the fact that human appearance is dictated by a laughably minuscle portion of the human genome. It's perfectly possible that Rei only got enough of Yui's gene to bear an uncanny superficial resemblance, and had to fill in the remaining massive gap with genes from some donor (maybe Lilith-derived "blank slate" cells?), thus making any romantic/sexual relationship between her and Shinji non-incestual from a practical perspective.

The problem with Rei is her Character Development came to a screeching halt when Asuka showed up
Anno actually went on record in an interview saying that he regrets having Rei smile in episode 6 and not much later, because in his mind it pretty much concluded her character development.

The EvaGeeks Wiki even has a quotation of this interview to back it up:

Takekuma: I see. That’s interesting. There were places where it didn’t seem that way at all.

Anno: Hmm. One reason was that I made a miscalculation. Episode six was too soon.

Takekuma: Episode six was too soon? Ah, the decisive battle in Tokyo-3. There was a level of intensity there like that of a final episode.

Anno: When creating the characters for Eva - in the case of Asuka, [when I had] the lines “Anta Baka!?” and “Chance…”, I thought, ah, this is going to work. In the case of Rei, it was the line in episode six: “You won’t die. I will protect you.” And also at the end, when Rei says, “I don’t know what kind of expression I should have at a time like this,” and Shinji says, “I think you should smile,” and Rei smiles. I felt like, ah, this is going to work. At those two points, Rei’s character was created. However, when I thought about it afterwards, I cursed. I thought, in short, that if she has [already] communicated with Shinji there, then isn’t she over with? At that moment, Rei, for me, was finished, all at once.

Takekuma: You had finished depicting her.

Anno: Right. When she smiled, she was already finished with, this character.

Takekuma: I understand. Because of that, it feels like the human relationships take a step backwards afterwards.

Anno: Yeah. It was the same as in Tsuburaya’s “Return of Ultraman.” [Just] when the relationship between [Hideki] Go and MAT improves, and you think [he] will get on well with other people, then next week things begin again from [a position of] estrangement. At that point something emerges of my mistrust or fear of communication with others.

Edited by MarqFJA on Feb 8th 2021 at 4:47:47 PM

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Hi
#10412: Feb 8th 2021 at 7:00:44 AM

Personally, while I'm not opposed to fanfics where Shinji and Rei become a couple (provided it's done right), I really like the line from the manga where Asuka asks Shinji point blank about him and Rei in that way and Shinji, IIRC, thinks to himself:

I've never thought of her with words like "like" and "want to go out with"...it's like she's a part of me that was torn away a long time ago.

Edited by Willbyr on Feb 8th 2021 at 7:01:20 AM

Robbery Since: Jul, 2012
#10413: Feb 8th 2021 at 7:39:32 AM

I always just figured that Shinji, while he initially had some confused feelings regarding Rei (he's not that used to having deep feelings for anyone, after all), eventually came to feel for her what one might feel for a twin sister, and that she felt that way about him. Philia with a dash of agape, rather than eros.

raziel365 Anka Aquila from South of the Far West (Veteran) Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
Anka Aquila
#10414: Feb 8th 2021 at 7:47:30 AM

Yeah, Shinji’s feelings for Rei could be read as familial rather than romantic, especially in the original series where Rei sort of took a distance after Asuka’s arrival.

Instead of focusing on relatives that divide us, we should find the absolutes that tie us.
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#10415: Feb 8th 2021 at 8:20:55 AM

I've always felt that Shinji and Rei played off each other better, and could reinforce one another against Gendo.

Though of course nobody in this series should even attempt romance before seeing a good therapist.

raziel365 Anka Aquila from South of the Far West (Veteran) Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
Anka Aquila
#10416: Feb 8th 2021 at 9:52:38 AM

[up]

I can agree with that last part.

Instead of focusing on relatives that divide us, we should find the absolutes that tie us.
amitakartok Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
#10417: Feb 8th 2021 at 4:20:11 PM

How about they just plain shouldn't attempt romance, period?

AmazingSpiderHam Since: Sep, 2020
#10418: Feb 8th 2021 at 5:24:11 PM

Anime... doesn't have a good record at portraying psychotherapy.

Edited by AmazingSpiderHam on Feb 8th 2021 at 5:24:34 AM

TheAirman Brightness from The vicinity of an area adjacent to a location Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Brightness
#10419: Feb 9th 2021 at 6:00:41 AM

Far from just anime, but Japanese media in general is especially bad at depicting mental health treatment. Because, well, Japan is notoriously bad at dealing with mental health issues.

PSN ID: FateSeraph | Switch friendcode: SW-0145-8835-0610 Congratulations! She/They
TargetmasterJoe from Velocitron Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
#10420: Feb 9th 2021 at 8:29:13 AM

[up] Didn't it get slightly better with that Ride Your Wave anime movie? Or is there still a long way to go?

It's still hard to hear that Japan struggles with mental health issues... sad

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Feb 9th 2021 at 8:29:24 AM

TheAmazingBlachman Since: Dec, 2011
#10421: Feb 9th 2021 at 11:13:52 AM

I would say Rei's character arc in the original series is about becoming whole again and reclaiming her identity as an ancient, primordial goddess (not a capital "G" god, but the distinction is pretty much insignificant from a human perspective) after having been forced into a lesser, reduced form.

To me, that means that in the end, her character is arguably too alien (well, perhaps "beyond human" is the better term here) for the idea of any kind of complete romance plot to be able to properly apply to her (though I believe that some sort of an aborted/bittersweet romance plot involving her could work, and even work very well depending on how it was written).

It is much in the same way that I think trying to diagnosing Rei with a mental illness, as I have frequently seen some fans attempt to do, is quite misguided and arguably barking up the completely wrong tree when it comes to understanding her character.

We're all still aliens.
raziel365 Anka Aquila from South of the Far West (Veteran) Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
Anka Aquila
#10422: Feb 10th 2021 at 9:18:22 AM

I'm not so sure, Rei III does act in a far more alien way, especially after Kaworu told her they were similar and she later on nullifies his AT Field in Central Dogma.

That said, Rei III also gave Shinji the reigns of Instrumentality after his mental breakdown, going against Gendo's wishes at the last moment so it does hint that Rei is a crossroad character like Kaworu in the sense that both straddle the line from alienness and humanity.

Instead of focusing on relatives that divide us, we should find the absolutes that tie us.
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#10423: Feb 10th 2021 at 11:33:08 AM

[up][up] You're basically going beyond equating Rei with Lilith and to straight to giving primacy to the latter over the former.

How about they just plain shouldn't attempt romance, period?
That's unnecessarily pessimistic.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#10424: Feb 10th 2021 at 5:51:16 PM

To say that Rei is too alien for any romance is kinda missing the whole point of her smiling at the end of Episode 6. She's not an emotionless, soulless doll clone but rather a person who has been conditioned to repress her emotions and independence since birth. Which is why Anno states that he regrets having her smile so early. The revelation is done too early and Rei essentially becomes just a reserved, quiet human being rather than some creepy clone housing the soul of Eldritch Abomination.

Plus, based on what I've seen in the anime and manga, the Human Instrumentality Project is undone because both Shinji and Rei came to an agreement that no good can from this and it would better to be individuals despite all the pain that comes with it. The manga in particular emphasized that the Third Impact ended when Shinji asks Rei if he can hold her hand one last time. And Rei smiles, does so, then disappears into the light while thanking Shinji for giving her a fulfilling life.

All in all, Rei comes across as someone appears alien but gradually becomes human as the series progresses. It's also why I find Shinji and Rei to work well as some kind of couple (not necessarily a romantic, sexual kind that we tend to associate with love but one that feels like inseparable soulmates if that makes sense).

TheAmazingBlachman Since: Dec, 2011
#10425: Feb 11th 2021 at 4:25:20 AM

[up][up]Well, yeah. That is kind of what I am saying and yet not entirely.

Rei's character arc is very centred both around how she is much most vast than she thought and how her experience as an individual is ultimately really important. Her eventual realization is that her wish to stop to existing is actually not a wish to return to nothing, to oblivion, but to return to being a part of something greater. She is at her core Lilith and but she was also not, in the sense that she lived as a human and during that time she learned something about being human and humanity in general through her interactions with Shinji. That is why, when she remerges with Lilith, and reclaims her identity as the latter, it informs the latter's decision to trust Shinji the choice of what to do with Instrumentality.

It much in the same way that the Helios ending of the original Deus Ex, has JC Denton realizing that he was meant for something greater, yet his personality and existence as an individual will be subsumed and ended when he is merged with Helios, yet Helios will still be changed and informed by his perspective and experience as an individual and (hopefully) gain a better understanding of humanity through it.

It is also much like the Eyeless from Pillars of Eternity realizing that they are not mindless minions, but actually a part broken off the destroyed and reforged god, Abydon, and must return to Abydon to make him whole again. But through player choices, the experiences of the Eyeless can change Abydon's perspective upon becoming a part of him again, and teach him the importance of letting go of the past, and give him the volition to forgive his fellows god who broke him in the first place.

Also, some comparison about the importance of Jesus as as a religious figure who merged the nature of divine and human, by living as a human despite his divine origins, can be drawn too, I suppose.

We're all still aliens.

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