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Neon Genesis Evangelion

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By popular demand. And because seriously, what the FUCK.

TheAirman Brightness from The vicinity of an area adjacent to a location Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Brightness
#9476: Jan 13th 2018 at 3:41:53 PM

Who the hell is Mayumi Yamagishi?

PSN ID: FateSeraph | Switch friendcode: SW-0145-8835-0610 Congratulations! She/They
Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#9477: Jan 13th 2018 at 3:44:18 PM

Quick note for people who like Eva, Devilman, one of the manga that inspired it, got an adaptation called Devil Man Crybaby.

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MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#9478: Jan 13th 2018 at 3:52:16 PM

[up][up] This girl. I don't blame you for not knowing about her; she's rather obscure, compared to Mana Kirishima (who debuted sometime after Mayumi).

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
amitakartok Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
#9479: Jan 13th 2018 at 4:08:24 PM

[up][up][up]What Marq said. Basically, take Shinji's personality but replace SDAT player with books and you have her.

Even her background is similar to Shinji's: powerful and influential father with ties to the UN, dead mother who did not die a natural death and it was witnessed by her child.

edited 13th Jan '18 4:09:56 PM by amitakartok

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#9480: Jan 13th 2018 at 4:32:37 PM

And the only major difference is a huge spoiler for the plot of the game that Mayumi debuts in: namely, she's the unknowing and unwilling host of an Angel.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
amitakartok Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
#9481: Jan 14th 2018 at 6:54:40 AM

Also, about what you said regarding Sakura Mogami lacking a naval theme naming... there's apparently a kanmusu with that name.

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
amitakartok Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
#9483: Jan 14th 2018 at 10:31:06 AM

And I found the namesake, sunk at Leyte Gulf. The design was apparently a defective piece of junk of a light cruiser due to the designers having tried too hard to make it into a Master of All (unstable in bad weather due to being excessively top-heavy and the guns' recoil tore up the hull's welding) but received an extensive reconstruction into a heavy cruiser that went on to kick ass. It even fought alongside the destroyer Shikinami at one point.

TheAirman Brightness from The vicinity of an area adjacent to a location Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Brightness
#9484: Jan 14th 2018 at 2:27:13 PM

@Marq: Ah, thanks. Your post last page made no mention of her being from a game

Mayumi Yamagishi is the only fully named NGE character with a major role in the original TV anime/manga storyline

So I got really, really confused.

PSN ID: FateSeraph | Switch friendcode: SW-0145-8835-0610 Congratulations! She/They
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#9485: Jan 14th 2018 at 8:03:04 PM

OK, I can see why you got confused. We need a better way to refer to the setting that was created by the TV anime and Sadamoto's manga, but is also the setting of some spin-offs that added new major characters even if they ended up putting them on a bus by the end (e.g. Mayumi in Neon Genesis Evangelion: Second Impression, and Mana Kirishima in Girlfriend of Steel).

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
MyssaRei Since: Feb, 2010
#9486: Jan 15th 2018 at 12:47:37 PM

[up]

Mayumi is really REALLY obscure, basically penned for a Konami game that was never exported out of Japan. And unlike Kirishima, whose game was not only done by Gainax and which events can neatly fit into the series timeline — the whole summer break — Second Impression... doesn't.

You also get the feeling that her character concept was done before the series went off the deep end (thanks to real life studio problems and Anno's depression). Mayumi is just an odd fit for the series as whole.

EDIT EDIT: Just remembered, but 2nd Impression happens in a very specific chunk of the school year that had no way of even happening due to things going to Hell in a handbasket in Tokyo-3 (the Cultural Festival in autumn).

edited 15th Jan '18 3:05:13 PM by MyssaRei

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#9487: Jan 16th 2018 at 4:37:44 AM

You're assuming that the festival in question was held on the traditional date that most Japanese schools hold their festivals on (Culture Day, i.e. November 3). Keyword being most; some schools do hold their culture festivals on a different date. Autumn starts as early as September (which is the month when Israfel is fought in canon, incidentally), after all.

And that's not taking into account the possibility that the Second Impact and subsequent time lost in dealing with the ensuing chaos (like, I don't know, Tokyo being nuked to the sea floor) indirectly forced Japan to change a lot of their national schedules.

Also, the Ayanami Raising Project offers an alternative timeline for the series that does away with the "EOE events take place around New Years" thing.

edited 16th Jan '18 4:38:58 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#9488: Jan 16th 2018 at 5:39:36 AM

Also keep in mind that the effect 2I had on the axial tilt means that seasons are no longer a thing in the NGE world.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#9489: Jan 16th 2018 at 5:51:24 AM

Well, in Japan, at least. I seriously doubt all of Earth no longer has seasons. I mean, even now the concept of "seasons" varies greatly depending on where on the planet you are; see Bizarre Seasons' real life folder for examples.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Willbyr MOD Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Hi
#9490: Feb 16th 2018 at 3:36:23 PM

It hasn't gotten to the point of Edit Warring (yet), but there's some very contentious back-and-forth going on on the pilots' Characters page regarding Rei and Asuka. The edits that were made to Asuka's sections (which have since been reverted) feel very bashy and agenda-driven, and I'd like to get some thoughts from folks about the current state of her and Rei's entries.

Nanrel Since: Feb, 2018 Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
#9491: Feb 16th 2018 at 4:09:34 PM

I recently made some edits to the Characters page, and noticed they were quickly reverted. I wasn't contacted nor was there any reason for the revert, and nor was there any discussion on the subject.

I've avoided escalating to an edit war by contacting the user who made the revert in question, only to receive accusations and threats in return over PM's. I then opened a discussion thread, but the user still wasn't having it. While I admittedly made some mistakes and reverted them myself, the vast majority is still entirely fine.

The edits are not bash-y, and concern multiple characters - I've tried to stick to the facts and use language already used in the article, but even these are reverted.

For instance, in Asuka's section it is often mentioned that she faces many defeats and eventually ends up lagging behind the other pilots whom she wants to be superior to - I added this in order to elaborate on a trope, and this was removed for "bashing", with a poorly worded edit reason full of mistakes:

Reason: Sorry meant to also say the only thing you’re entery does, I bash her character. She is by no means the word pilot of the bunch. For most the series the seems to be the best. Only late in the series does Shinji pass her, and even then it’s arguably more in power than skill. You seem to be the only person who believes she doesn’t fit the bill. The curren edit says all that needs to be said.

My edit had no mention at all that she was "the worst of the bunch" or even the worst, just that she eventually couldn't keep up with the other pilots - which is something that's already written dozens of times on the page (not by me, but by dozens of different users over several years), and something everyone who has read or watched the manga knows!

I don't think the problem is "bashing" at all, this is clearly some form of character favoritism and protectionism over the page turf.

If the page is only allowed to be edited by a single user or even a clique of users, something is clearly wrong.

edited 16th Feb '18 4:14:48 PM by Nanrel

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#9492: Feb 17th 2018 at 5:32:58 AM

I only made a cursory glance, but I can safely say that neither of you are fully in the right or wrong. You removed some trope entries that were perfectly fine, like Adaptation Dye-Job for Rei, for example.

My suggestion: put a draft of all the changes that you are proposing, be they additions or removals, in a post here, and we'll try to help you refine it. It would certainly be more convenient than having to figure out the sum total of all the proposed changes from the history page, given the way it works right now is far from ideal (no comparison function, for one).

edited 17th Feb '18 5:33:24 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Nanrel Since: Feb, 2018 Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
#9494: Feb 17th 2018 at 8:37:07 AM

That was something I attempted to do in the discussion page of the forum. Like you mentioned, some of the removals may have been mistakes (which it is good that were picked up on) which I added back myself, or reworded.

So that's actually where we are right now, since everything was more or less reverted.

I started doing one by one with extended edit reasons, which were summarily reverted, with The Amazing Blach Man and Blazing Trolls "teaming up" in order to undo everything I'd written (with subjective reason statements like "i didn't like it"). Ideally, these users should have been told to back off or suspended for what is quite clearly inciting an edit war.

Nevertheless, let's just start from the top-to-bottom using the latest example. I wanted to change the current definition (you can see it on the page now) to this:

Arrogant Kung-Fu Guy: She is a deconstructed female example. Initially she is extremely cocky and brags about her skills as an EVA Pilot. As the story progresses it is shown that she cannot keep up with the rest of the pilots and her arrogance was in truth, misplaced overconfidence and a way to escape from reality.

I decided to remove e.g the sentence that said Asuka was fucked up (since that's hardly descriptive) and replace it with an accurate description that also explains to the reader why the trope fits.

and the reason:

Reworded Arrogant Kung Fu Guy to explain further why the trope fits the character. With this trope, it is important to highlight how the trope subject is arrogant, which is the case for Asuka. "Ace" was removed because Asuka never becomes or was an Ace pilot, or claims to be. Removed some cruft and ambiguous wording.

It's my hope that we can get through a couple of these, and be done with this unless Ask The Tropers is the more correct forum for this.

edited 17th Feb '18 9:06:20 AM by Nanrel

TheAmazingBlachman Since: Dec, 2011
#9495: Feb 17th 2018 at 9:12:21 AM

Look, I'm sorry if you felt there was some "teaming up" on you. What happened with Blazing Trolls, that s/he asked me via PM if I personally agreed with their reverts, and, well, I did. But I was not aware that s/he was going to use that as some sort of "vote" in support. My voice should not count in that manner seeing how I am but a mere average user. I obviously don't have that kind of authority.

My own reversions were mainly motivated by the fact that you were quite aggressively pushing an unsubstantiated theory that NERV had intentionally induced Asuka's trauma as part of a ploy, which is not supported by the text of the show.

edited 17th Feb '18 10:08:19 AM by TheAmazingBlachman

We're all still aliens.
Nanrel Since: Feb, 2018 Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
#9496: Feb 17th 2018 at 9:15:15 AM

All right, I understand.

I believe it (NERV's ownership of the EVA programme) is very well supported in the show, but we can get to that later.

What are your thoughts on the edit mentioned so far?

edited 17th Feb '18 4:15:22 PM by Nanrel

BlazingTrolls Since: Nov, 2017
#9497: Feb 17th 2018 at 4:30:45 PM

I stand by what I did. Most of your edits where clearly biased, incorrect, or uneeded rewording. I asked others if they thought something was up and they agreed.

I also recall no evidence of NERV induced trauma done to Asuka.

edited 17th Feb '18 4:35:12 PM by BlazingTrolls

Nanrel Since: Feb, 2018 Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
#9498: Feb 17th 2018 at 4:39:22 PM

Well, let's focus on one thing first. We can get to the NERV/Asuka thing later. Right now, consider the edit above. What's your take, why remove it?

BlazingTrolls Since: Nov, 2017
#9499: Feb 17th 2018 at 5:03:56 PM

Well for one, most of your edit has nothing to do with Arrogent Kung Fu Guy. You only need to establish the cocky part. We have a entire page to describe her faults, which is why it was short.

Second, you edit took away all the reasons she had to be cocky. Your reasoning of her not being a Ace Pilot is incorrect. Most of all your edits where basically , Taking things like “her skill as a pilot” or “her intelligence” and replacing them with “not a good pilot” or “thinks she’s smart”.

edited 17th Feb '18 5:05:06 PM by BlazingTrolls

Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#9500: Feb 17th 2018 at 5:04:44 PM

It as explicitly stated that Nerv intentionally broke their pilots mentally to get them to pilot better.

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