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By popular demand. And because seriously, what the FUCK.

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#9426: Sep 26th 2017 at 8:27:37 AM

~Willbyr: [up] ... So you want in, too?

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Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#9428: Nov 12th 2017 at 8:26:04 PM

On a different note, I'm of the mind that Neon Genesis Evangelion Anima is long overdue for being created, but at the same time know very well that it's not a one-man job, especially since I have a very cramped schedule already. Fortunately, part of the work is already done for us by the people at Eva Geeks, who have translations of some of the light novels, with some of the gaps filled by the Evangelion Wikia site (particularly pictures of some characters).

So who's up for working on this?

Work list (non-exhaustive):

  • A description that summarizes the premise as well as the general direction of the storyline.
  • Applicable tropes, as far as we know from the translations.
    • A character sheet that lists the tropes applicable to the cast specific to this story (i.e. no need to mention canon version tropes unless there's something new to add).

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amitakartok Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
#9429: Nov 17th 2017 at 3:12:04 PM

...okkay, if anyone here has seen Death and Rebirth, I seek your counsel.

What is a 37 minute piece of Verdi's Dies Irae doing on the OST disc? Was it used in the OVA?

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#9430: Nov 19th 2017 at 4:09:57 AM

I just saw this trope entry on Asuka's character sheet profile, and want second opinions on it.

Badass Decay: Invoked as a part of her character arc. As Asuka suffers from more and more failures and begins to be outclassed by Shinji, she gradually loses her self-confidence, eventually becoming a catatonic wreck after her Mind Rape by Arael.

How is this a case of Invoked Trope?

Also, do Asuka and Rei really count as examples of The Berserker? Unlike Shinji in Unstoppable Rage mode, neither of them ever actually go "berserk" except for Asuka when she fights the Eva Series in End of Evangelion.

Now, Rei does fight with what one would call recklessness, but only in the sense that she doesn't care if she dies in battle as have her soul transferred to one of her many soulless clones; from I remember, unless she's actually going for a Heroic Sacrifice, she makes a point of avoiding taking hits whenever possible (most likely reason that fits her personality is because damage to her Eva would be detrimental to her and the Eva's combat worthiness).

edited 19th Nov '17 5:52:56 AM by MarqFJA

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Sackett Since: Jan, 2001
#9431: Nov 19th 2017 at 1:53:58 PM

It's not an Invoked Trope. It looks like the troper meant to cite Intended Trope, since Badass Decay is often unintended by the author, but in Asuka's case it is intended.

I also don't think either of the girls are berserkers...

Rei is a Death Seeker not a Berseker. And Asuka's fight at End of Evangelion isn't berserk, it's controlled battle lust. Asuka is clearly in control of her actions and demonstrating skill and tactics that are not consistent with a Berserk state.

EDIT: I went ahead and edited the page to remove the berserker tropes, and change invoked to intended.

edited 19th Nov '17 2:10:50 PM by Sackett

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#9432: Nov 19th 2017 at 4:50:54 PM

You may have a point about Asuka's EOE fight not being an example of The Berserker, but I don't think it qualifies for Blood Knight either. Blood Knight is about a character who lives for fighting and battling, something that I doubt we can conclude is true of Asuka just from her last battle when all of prior evidence has shown her to be an Attention Whore Glory Seeker who hides behind a Blood Knight facade (if even that). Better put it under Unstoppable Rage, since that's one half of what was driving her at the time and making her unusually deadly. Hell, said fight is already listed in UnstoppableRage.Anime And Manga.

On a different note, Asuka has both Girly Girl with a Tomboy Streak and Tomboy with a Girly Streak listed. Can a character be both??? That doesn't seem right... then again, now that I think about, I'm having a hard time deciding which trope she fits. Help, please?

edited 19th Nov '17 8:15:43 PM by MarqFJA

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Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Hi
#9433: Nov 20th 2017 at 4:12:21 AM

[up] Agreed, it's a better fit for Unstoppable Rage. As to the last question, Asuka isn't listed as an example on either trope page, she never struck me as remotely tomboyish, and those qualities listed as the tomboy qualifiers feel like misuse. I'd can both entries.

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#9434: Nov 20th 2017 at 6:00:13 AM

Just for clarity's sake, are you looking it from a Western perspective or a Japanese one? Because I think the latter is how we should be looking at it, given she's a Japanese-made character in a Japanese-made work and thus made within the context of Japanese culture.

Also, I want to expand the Heroic BSoD entry under Asuka's profile with her entry on Heroic BSoD itself, but the grammar in the later is questionable in some parts. All but one of them have obvious fixes. Emphasis mine:

Asuka after being Mind Raped. She spent most of time full of anger and grief, thinking that nobody loved her and nobody would care for her now that she had been humilliated, and after losing her connection to Eva (which meant that she was now worthless to Nerv and would be replaced and discarded), she ran away and tried to commit suicide. She was found in time to save her life, but she fell in a coma.
Simply omitting the second "nobody" doesn't seem like the right choice IMO, while doing that plus replacing "and" with "or" risks changing the meaning to unfoundedly imply that there can be people who would still love Asuka yet would not care for her.

edited 20th Nov '17 6:29:38 AM by MarqFJA

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TheAirman Brightness from The vicinity of an area adjacent to a location Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Brightness
#9435: Nov 20th 2017 at 8:12:48 AM

[up]I think you're interpreting "or" too literally, too mathematically in this context. "Thinking that nobody loved or cared for her" is a perfectly natural way to phrase that.

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MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#9436: Nov 20th 2017 at 9:43:53 AM

I guess you're right.

Back to Asuka and whether she's not tomboyish... It may be worth mentioning that she's listed on Masculine Girl, Feminine Boy and Tomboy and Girly Girl as the masculine girl to Shinji's feminine boy and the tomboy to Hikari's girly girl, respectively.

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Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Hi
#9437: Nov 20th 2017 at 10:12:57 AM

That’s an interesting question. She definitely flies against Japanese standards of femininity in a lot of ways, but at the same time I don’t know if that really counts as being tomboyish or if it’s just culture clash.

On the most recent edit to her Unstoppable Rage entry, the pothole under “sheer fury” to that trope is redundant and can be removed.

edited 20th Nov '17 10:14:45 AM by Willbyr

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#9438: Nov 20th 2017 at 10:22:46 AM

That’s an interesting question. She definitely flies against Japanese standards of femininity in a lot of ways, but at the same time I don’t know if that really counts as being tomboyish or if it’s just culture clash.
Well, to be honest, she did come across as a tomboyish girl to me from the beginning, and from what I've seen over the years, that's the prevalent impression among EVA fans too (especially fanfics). It becomes easier to see by contrasting her with Shinji (feminine boy), Hikari (archetypical girly girl), Rei (would be a girly girl if she was more "normal"), Mana (another girl girly, though she probably fits the Girly Girl with a Tomboy Streak), and Mayumi (again, archetypical girly girl).

On the most recent edit to her Unstoppable Rage entry, the pothole under “sheer fury” to that trope is redundant and can be removed.
Whoops. I forgot about that pothole.

edited 20th Nov '17 10:22:59 AM by MarqFJA

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Sackett Since: Jan, 2001
#9439: Nov 20th 2017 at 12:17:29 PM

You have a point about maybe not fitting under Blood Knight. That seemed the best place since it was a state of battle lust (which we don't have a trope for, and it doesn't quite fit Tranquil Fury either), and stands in contrast to the rest of the Blood Knight entry which is all about how Asuka is a subversion of it. I think it might still belong there as illuminating the way Eva plays with the Blood Knight trope for Asuka. Maybe with better verbiage describing that?

As for the awkward grammer:

"She spent most of time full of anger and grief, thinking that nobody loved her and nobody would care for her now that she had been humilliated..."

This isn't wrong grammer, despite repeating nobody. Another way to phrase it would be:

"She spent most of time full of anger and grief, thinking that nobody loved her nor would anyone care for her now that she had been humilliated..."

Or:

"She spent most of time full of anger and grief, thinking that nobody loved her, nor cared for her, now that she had been humilliated..."

Sackett Since: Jan, 2001
#9440: Nov 20th 2017 at 12:25:07 PM

On the subject of Tomboy with a Girly Streak or Girly Girl with a Tomboy Streak -

She tends to come across as a tomboy with a girly streak because of how she's introduced... she's so aggressive and assertive from the beginning and only later do we start to see her girly side. So I think that's clearly the Intended Trope.

But... when you look at her objectively, instead of the order in which her attributes are introduced - I think she's actually a girly girl with a tomboy streak. I mean, she seems like she loves clothes, fashion, and makeup - and then she also loves attention and is a glory seeker. It just so happens that the best way for her to achieve glory is in combat piloting a massive war machine - and by acting in an aggressive and violent manner as part of that persona.

That tends to suggest to me that removed from the extreme situation of Evangelion, Asuka probably would be the girly girl who also enjoys crushing the boys at soccer rather than a tomboy who enjoys playing soccer but also likes pink and dressing up.

Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Hi
#9441: Nov 21st 2017 at 9:22:28 AM

Come to think of it, she’s introduced playing an arcade game in the manga (a fighting game, IIRC) and kicks the asses of some jerks who accost her and the Baka Boys...all while wearing her famous yellow sundress. With that in mind, and in light of [up], Girly Girl with a Tomboy Streak might indeed be the better fit.

amitakartok Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
#9443: Nov 21st 2017 at 3:29:26 PM

Or maybe list her with neither?

That's an option too, if we can't conclusively decide. World ain't gonna end if she's not under either.

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#9444: Nov 21st 2017 at 6:31:46 PM

Guys, "girly girl" being the dominant aspect of a character takes more than just looks; otherwise, Makoto Kino should have her Tomboy with a Girly Streak changed to Girly Girl with a Tomboy Streak on account that her wardrobe is no less feminine than any of the other Solar System Sailor Soldiers sans Haruka.

Asuka has the hallmarks of a (stereotypically) tomboyish personality with her overt assertiveness, confrontationality, and dominant and aggressive behavior (especially towards boys). Even if she might not be that exceptional for a girl in most real-life Western societies, by the standards of fictional character design she's unambiguously a tomboy.

@Sackett: RE Blood Knight... I've said this before, and I'll say it again: Blood Knight is about a character's lifestyle revolving around an indiscriminate love for battle in and of itself. Asuka's single battle against the Eva Series in EOE is nowhere near sufficient to establish whether or not she became a true Blood Knight after spending all her previous appearances proving that she wasn't.

RE Tomboy vs Girly Girl... I've never heard anyone here before now use a "let's look at this character from an objective POV" to determine their applicability for a characterization trope.

[up] Our indecisiveness is only in your head for now, Amita. We're not even a page into the argument.


On a slightly different note... I notice that Asuka's profile has a Fembot entry that refers to the appearance of the "Asuka-Eva Synthesis" entity from Anima. The problem: A description of Asuka-Eva that was translated from official materials says that she looks "more like 'a giantess cosplaying as an Eva' than an Eva per se". That sounds more like "she's a Robot Girl rather than a Fembot". What do you think? Is this a Fembot, or a Robot Girl?

edited 21st Nov '17 6:37:58 PM by MarqFJA

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MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#9446: Nov 22nd 2017 at 3:54:45 AM

... What are they crossing over with here?

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Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#9447: Nov 22nd 2017 at 6:40:57 AM

Hortensia Saga.

Mobile game it looks like, so unkown we don't even have a page on it.

...evangelion/ Made In Abyss crossover when?

edited 22nd Nov '17 6:41:40 AM by Demongodofchaos2

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OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#9448: Nov 22nd 2017 at 7:15:13 AM

A stratgey rpg I believe set in a Medieval setting it appears.

Knowing Japan its probably only known over there.

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MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#9449: Nov 22nd 2017 at 9:28:16 AM

OK.

... No opinions on the trope applicability stuff?

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Sackett Since: Jan, 2001
#9450: Nov 22nd 2017 at 1:25:39 PM

"Asuka has the hallmarks of a (stereotypically) tomboyish personality with her overt assertiveness, confrontationality, and dominant and aggressive behavior (especially towards boys). Even if she might not be that exceptional for a girl in most real-life Western societies, by the standards of fictional character design she's unambiguously a tomboy."

Err... what? "overt assertiveness, confrontationality, and dominant and aggressive behavior" are not the hallmarks of a tomboyish personality. That's why we have the trope Queen Bee. That's not to say such assertiveness and aggressive behavior aren't associated with Tomboys, they are, but it's a weak correlation, not one of the defining factors.

The hallmarks of a Tomboy are the preference for activities and possessions that are typically associated with boys. Also, she very often prefers to hang out with the boys (cause they do more fun stuff) and tends not to want to do things with girls.

For example, while Asuka's dominance and aggressiveness isn't really a sign of a Tomboyish streak, the fact that her way of showing this often involves physical intimidation, rough housing, and even straight up violence is very Tomboyish. Especially in a Japanese cultural perspective.

Other Tomboyish actions she shows are her love of competitive video games, and the delight she takes in demonstrating physical superiority over boys.

However, her girlishness goes well beyond simple appearances. Asuka has a large collection of clothes, and she is obviously very interested in fashion - and she prefers feminine fashion not boyish clothes. She is aware of her attractiveness and likes the attention she gets for her feminine beauty. Most important of all - notice that once you put aside her Eva linked duties (including her rooming with Shinji) she spends her time with the girls, doing girl things, not hanging out with the boys.

If she was a true Tomboy, why is Hikari her best friend instead of Toji? In fact, why does she have such a negative attitude towards Toji? Since as a jock you'd think he'd be the kind of guy she approves of. In fact, before Rei alienated her, Asuka made an offer of "friendship" to the other female Eva pilot. Asuka pays a lot more attention to how she fits in female society than your stereotypical tomboy does.

I mean, if you took away the Eva program, Asuka would probably be hanging out at the mall with Hikari shopping, not playing basketball with Toji. Not that she wouldn't mind an occasional one on one with Toji to teach him his place, but I don't think that would be the first thing she would think of doing when bored on a Saturday afternoon.

There is no denying Asuka has a strong Tomboyish streak, but I think her base personality leans more towards being girly.

Of course, it's pretty clear that the story is initially presenting her as the Tomboyish contrast to the more feminine Rei and Hikari. However, alot of things in Eva are not what they appear on the surface. Having Asuka actually being more girly than Rei (which when you think about it - she is) despite her initial presentation as the Tomboy - well that fits Evangelion's style very well.


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