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Lymantria Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph from Toronto Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph
#204851: Oct 31st 2024 at 4:00:00 PM

On one hand, it might have made some people think the type had more to do with literal darkness (more of a Ghost thing) than it did, but on the other hand, I do see your point.

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MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#204852: Oct 31st 2024 at 4:51:44 PM

[up] Dark Pulse among other moves didn't help abit.

Granted the argument could be made that Dark and Ghost are a similar case to rock, Ground and Grass (and steel) being an element as we understand it split into its discreet aspects and make their own types, rather than one vague umbrella that emcomapsses several related concepts.

As for the transaltion I think the other issue here is the present of an "evil" type implies one of a "good" type that that might not be baggage GF or NOA want to open (even with the argument for Fighting, or Fairy being close enough to that "type") on top of it potneitlaly being seen as a value judgement

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Oct 31st 2024 at 4:56:52 AM

KuroBaraHime ☆♥☆ Since: Jan, 2011
☆♥☆
#204853: Oct 31st 2024 at 5:14:42 PM

I think the other issue here is the present of an "evil" type implies one of a "good" type
I mean, it's the same with Dark-type implying an opposite Light-type that people have been asking for since Dark was introduced. At the end of the day, Fighting and Fairy (and Psychic to an extent) are already considered good enough to account for Light/Good. Dark/Evil is meant to cover dishonorable tactics and malicious energy, and the opposites of those are already covered with Fighting being trained, disciplined fighting, and Fairy being good-feeling, pacifying energy (and Psychic is more "pure" mediated spiritual energy).

Dark Pulse among other moves didn't help abit.
That move is called Evil Pulse (or maybe something like Malice Wave) in Japanese, so despite the "darkness energy" visuals it still sticks to the type's theme. I think the only Dark moves that really lean purely into just being "dark energy" are Dark Void (Dark Hole) and Night Daze (Night Burst).

Though Dark and Ghost really do step on each other toes with both sides of the types, since Ghost covers most of the dark and shadow-themed moves, but Dark has a couple; and Dark covers dirty fighting and some "malicious energy" attacks, but Ghost also has a bunch of a curse, grudge, and ill will attacks based on the "vengeful ghost" type of spirit you see in Japanese folklore.

MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#204854: Oct 31st 2024 at 6:02:39 PM

[up] Fair, but FWIW Light is represented int he games, just not as a type. Plus I think the implication of certain species of mons being implicitly irredeemable might be the larger sticking point. Especially since A. Absol has the type despite its lore all about being a misunderstood messenger and B. The Lowlives Three and their boss, despite being the closest pokemon has ever came to irredeemable non-human antagonists utterly lack hat type entirety.

KuroBaraHime ☆♥☆ Since: Jan, 2011
☆♥☆
#204855: Oct 31st 2024 at 6:44:53 PM

Saying they're "implicitly irredeemable" seems pretty harsh, but there might be a bit of language problem here. I think Evil carries a harsher tone to it than 悪 (aku) does, even though they technically mean the same thing. More often when people say "evil" they means like, EVIL, like kicking puppies and killing people. But 悪 kind of more often covers the entire spectrum of "badness" from that down to spitting gum on the sidewalk and drawing dicks on the public bathroom walls. If someone is describing a full on psychopath they're more often going to use a word like 極悪 (literally: extreme evil).

Maybe one way you could indirectly translate the type name would be to call it Chaos-type. That kind of gets the point across. Dark-types are chaotic and fight dirty, but they're not necessarily capital letter Evil.

And Absol is always meant to intentionally play with its type with the whole misunderstanding thing. Also, I still stand by that Mega Absol should have been Dark/Fairy.

ReikoKazama Kersplat! from Tasmania, Australia Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Married to the music
Kersplat!
#204856: Oct 31st 2024 at 7:19:39 PM

Welp. Looks like I either risk an Ice Punch on my Kommo-o or get back to the DLC so I can beat Indigo Disk and get me a Kubfu. (Looking at Single Strike Urshifu for the gator)

EDIT: Somehow I forgot about Scrafty. [lol]

Edited by ReikoKazama on Nov 2nd 2024 at 12:17:01 AM

FC: SW-1445-0294-1719/PSN: TekkenGirl4Lyfe/Currently playing: Croc: Legend of the Gobbos HD
generation81 Since: Aug, 2021
#204857: Nov 1st 2024 at 7:34:17 AM

Idea I had for a crossover couple days ago:

Pokemon x Transformers

Thousands of years ago a meteor shower of Energon landed in a region and when Pokemon were exposed to it they could transform Mega-Evolution-style. Come the present, and as people gladly use what has been dubbed Enervolving on their own, it is detected by Cybertronians, and naturally both the Autobots and the Decepticons want it, sending teams down to gather the energon by any means necessary. The Autobots, or the Maximons as they will be known just want to take the crude Energon in the ground and let the humans and pokemon keep the rest, while the Decepticons or Deceptimons want it all, even attacking Pokemon in the possesion of trainers and strip them of it by force.

I don't have any full character concepts yet, but what I do have is:

  • Optima Primal - The leader of the Maximons, with an Entei alternate mode. I headcanon her voiced by Kimberly Brooks.
  • A Maximon scientist who is both The Smart Guy and The Big Guy of the Maximon, with a big armoured Pokemon as his alt mode, who I picture voiced by John Cena.
  • Henry - The human lead, a young Pokemon trainer who discovers the Transformers on the planet when he attempted to catch one of the Maximons. He ends up letting the Maximons travel with him by pretending their his Pokemon he captured.
  • Team Cyber - A team of humans that have also discovered the Cybertronians, and have allied with the Deceptimons to also hoard the energon for their own purposes.

Anyone have ideas for this?

Edited by generation81 on Nov 1st 2024 at 10:51:36 AM

MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#204858: Nov 1st 2024 at 7:40:53 AM

Rather interesting, but would likely be a different tack then the average pokemon story since the Cybertronians are on an equal level with the mons at base, so there is no need for them to have a mutual partnership with the pokemon. This might in turn beg "why tho?" responses beyond Rule of Cool (which is valid).

That is the issue with Duels Decide Everything it requires that means of power and conflict resolution be channeled though dueling and dueling alone. And that the duelists cannot obtain their goals without it. Having Humongous Mecha who can easily circumvent this means the story would shift radically. Especially given the mutual Outside-Context Problem nature of the premise.

generation81 Since: Aug, 2021
#204859: Nov 1st 2024 at 7:50:54 AM

[up] .... Why do you think the Transformers have Pokemon? I don't intend it.

MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#204860: Nov 1st 2024 at 7:58:59 AM

[up] because the usual premise of crossovers with pokemon tend to be the characters being trainers.

Edited by MorningStar1337 on Nov 1st 2024 at 7:59:09 AM

generation81 Since: Aug, 2021
#204861: Nov 1st 2024 at 8:01:02 AM

[up] At most I would have Transformers fight along Pokemon but not catch any.

Hell, rn I imagine some Transformers, like the John Cena character actually finding Pokmon attling to be a cruel practice they don't approve of.

Edited by generation81 on Nov 1st 2024 at 12:33:17 PM

Blackress Since: Dec, 2019
#204862: Nov 2nd 2024 at 10:39:48 AM

Turns out Zygarde having Thousand Waves and Thousand Arrows as signature moves is an artifact of an old idea Gamefreak had for the mon having two different 100% forms, which each one being intended to be anti-Xerneas & Yveltal respectively. The anti-Xerneas one would've been based on an animal which hunts deers (feline/wolf looking, isn't specified in the internal docs) while the anti-Yveltal one would've been more humanoid and use actual anti-aircraft techniques. The idea ended up scrapped in the end but it did influence the designs of Zygarde 10% and 100%, whom were oficially designed 2-3 years after 50% Zygarde.

Another artifact found (which I dunno if it's been mentioned before) is Gen 7's Ryuki. The reason the guy is so out of place in the Sun & Moon games (+ revisions) is because he's a leftover of a scrapped post-game sidequest in which the player would've build Alola's Gym Leader system, with him being the region's Dragon Gym leader.

Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#204863: Nov 2nd 2024 at 12:22:08 PM

Mentioned it two pages ago. The candidate Gym Leaders besides Ryuki himself were going to be Ilima, Lana, Kiawe, Molayne, Mina, Plumeria, and (seemingly) a choice between Sina or Dexio.

On the subject of Ryuki, he's evidently from Blackthorn City in Johto and only started battling as a sideshow to bolster his music career, only for it to overtake his music by far. His strongest Pokemon was also originally going to be Dragonite before becoming Kommo-o.

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#204864: Nov 3rd 2024 at 1:08:02 AM

[up][up] I suspect we may see those forms again for Zygarde in the new game.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
The-Azure-Star-Of-Orion Long time lurker from a deep dark hole Since: Mar, 2022 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Long time lurker
#204865: Nov 3rd 2024 at 1:47:17 AM

[up]probably not as they already been used for the 10% & 100% forms after scraping the idea.

After 10 year plus years I have the confidence to be here. My one and only Fate servent.
MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#204866: Nov 3rd 2024 at 9:23:25 AM

If we were to buff these moves, I'd gow ith the following

  • Thousand Waves is changed to be an anti Psyshock, scaling off the opponent's Sp. DEF over their Def. This would give it a niche over Arrows for hitting more mentally frail mons. I'd also give it super effectiveness over Fairy
  • Thousand Arrows would also get super effectiveness over Flying and Dark if they haven't already
  • Core Enforcer would get tweaked to be 120 BP if in Complete form and also gain bonuses on if one of the priot moves was used the turn ebfore with Waves allowing it to hit Fairy-types and supress stat buffs, while Arrows would have a "Heal Block" effect added to the target of Core Enforcer, which would neutralize Xerneas and Yveltal's best moves.

I would also add a 20% Squirrel-like form referencing ratatoskr, with a Dragon status signature move to match that would give Zyvarde a Shell Bell effect and set up Grassy Terrain.

TPPR10 Craving for fish from up north Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#204868: Nov 3rd 2024 at 2:27:28 PM

[up] TBF it is Earthquake without the drawback in Doubles that alone would warrant a slot on any other pokemon. Its just that Thousand Arrows are technically better for what it hits.

Lymantria Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph from Toronto Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph
#204869: Nov 3rd 2024 at 2:30:57 PM

[up][up] That reminds me, I don’t think we’ve gotten any new moves with special type effectiveness (like Flying Press, Freeze-Dry, and Thousand Arrows) since Gen 6.

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TPPR10 Craving for fish from up north Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Craving for fish
#204870: Nov 3rd 2024 at 3:37:11 PM

Since there has been questions about "Is Phione a Mythical Pokémon or not?", there are guidelines that finally confirm it; it is called a "semi-Mythical Pokémon", just it is advised not to call it that, or much of anything due to the confusing way you an obtain it.

(Also Deoxys is called a Mythical Pokémon in spite of you being able to capture it in ORAS out of legacy, so it should apply to any such cases).

Only sometimes posts
MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#204871: Nov 3rd 2024 at 3:46:21 PM

[up] that makes sense. Phione really highlights the arbitrariness of the Legendary and Mythical monikers

Lymantria Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph from Toronto Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph
#204872: Nov 3rd 2024 at 4:07:20 PM
TPPR10 Craving for fish from up north Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Craving for fish
#204873: Nov 3rd 2024 at 8:08:15 PM

[up] This right here. Again, this is more of a internal classification rather than "official".

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Anomalocaris20 from Sagittarius A* Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#204874: Nov 3rd 2024 at 8:35:14 PM

Would be neat to be able to just encounter wild Phione. Maybe even treat it as a counterpart to Carbink as the mediocre versions of Manaphy and Diancie.

Edited by Anomalocaris20 on Nov 3rd 2024 at 11:35:33 AM

You cannot firmly grasp the true form of Squidward's technique!
KZN02 The Master of Tediousness (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
The Master of Tediousness
#204875: Nov 3rd 2024 at 11:06:33 PM

@Morning Star 1337 Kind of funny thinking this year for Fire Emblem Heroes has a Ratatoskr.

With a '0', not an 'O'

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