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So Why Does Everyone Hate Ben 10: Alien Force?

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RandomChaos No Dragon Power from My own little world Since: Oct, 2011
No Dragon Power
#51: Aug 2nd 2011 at 4:45:03 PM

Ghost freak was an interesting alien however Bigchill is one of the few alien force original aliens that I thought was a significant improvement over the ones from the original series. I'm not saying I don't like Ghost Freak however I just like Big Chill better.

With the power of a dragon I can make up for my inability to spill.
Blurring One just might from one hill away to the regular Bigfoot jungle. Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
One just might
#52: Aug 2nd 2011 at 7:55:20 PM

@ninjaclown

I'm an adult and love the series.

And Big Chill is way better than Ghostfreak.

If a chicken crosses the road and nobody else is around to see it, does the road move beneath the chicken instead?
ninjaclown Since: May, 2009
#53: Aug 2nd 2011 at 9:23:21 PM

I think it's average, servicable, mediocre. Not bad, but certainly not good. I just prefer shows that have a stable base mythology that doesn't derail characters, stuff them into cramped, boring stereotypes or pull things out of its butt.

equiNoxequiLight Kindly calm thineself from Somewhere unfamiliar... Since: Jan, 2011
Kindly calm thineself
#54: Aug 3rd 2011 at 2:22:51 AM

One of my problems with BOTH series is the way that they introduce the first ten aliens and yet only used some of them. As stated earlier Ghostfreak was used approximately 3 times before he vamoosed, then there is that fish one from Ben 10 (Riptide? Ripjaw?) that was used probably all of 5 times, with like 2 of those actually being useful in any way. I didn't watch Alien Force much, but it seemed like Echo Echo and Goop weren't used often. And let's not even start on Alien X.

I mean, honestly, excluding Ghostfreak's surprise Heel–Face Turn, what was the point of even including them? If you're gonna create characters like that and introduce them to us, DO SOMETHING WITH THEM! Sure Ripjaw probably would have turned into the Aquaman of the group, but they didn't even attempt it, even though he was one of the original ten, which is what's so frustrating.

edited 3rd Aug '11 10:23:34 AM by equiNoxequiLight

Let's not speak of what was just said, shall we?
qtjinla15 Since: Dec, 2010
#55: Nov 30th 2011 at 12:45:15 PM

The underusage of aliens in exchange for brute force and less usage of clever tactics.

nairoxev Since: Nov, 2011
#56: Nov 30th 2011 at 6:07:31 PM

I find it So Okay, It's Average. Though I hated both Ultimate Alien and Ben Ten .

RandomChaos No Dragon Power from My own little world Since: Oct, 2011
No Dragon Power
#57: Nov 30th 2011 at 6:57:27 PM

Gwen: "Personality? usefulness? I don't need that I'm getting laid."

With the power of a dragon I can make up for my inability to spill.
qtjinla15 Since: Dec, 2010
nairoxev Since: Nov, 2011
#59: Dec 1st 2011 at 3:24:23 AM

There's no evidence Gwen is getting laid.

RandomChaos No Dragon Power from My own little world Since: Oct, 2011
No Dragon Power
#60: Dec 1st 2011 at 10:50:26 AM

I was making a point.

She basically traded her entire character for being Kevin's girlfriend

With the power of a dragon I can make up for my inability to spill.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#61: Dec 1st 2011 at 11:03:34 AM

No... not really. She appears in lots of capabilities and roles beyond her relationship to Kevin.

Personally, I think they more tried to instill too much of a Closer to Earth personality into her (but only because that character type shows up so much that its starting to grate on me), a trait portrayed as mostly independent of being Kevin's girlfriend (which didn't happen in a solid way for a while anyways), except for when it was done in regards to Kevin himself.

Though I still prefer it to her 10-year old personality.

Anyway, as for Alien Force, my opinion is that though it had it's moments, it's generally not as good/interesting as what came before or after, though it at least got me watching. Ultimate Alien was definitely a kind of Growing the Beard (again) of sorts, however honestly imo all three series are varying degrees of average. Though Alien Force is definitely more obviously average than the other two.

edited 1st Dec '11 11:07:07 AM by KnownUnknown

qtjinla15 Since: Dec, 2010
Francoeur Since: Dec, 1969
#63: Dec 11th 2011 at 12:46:04 AM

Eh, it's a pretty good show. Although I do hate how the only things that Kevin and Gwen have in common with their Ben 10 counterparts are their names; honestly, if I was flicking through channels and saw an episode without knowing anyone's name I would assume that Gwen and Kevin were just two teens Ben met in highschool.

Also, they downgraded Vilgax and whitewashed Charmcaster. Just... What.

On a positive note, Paradox is absolutely fantastic.

edited 11th Dec '11 1:10:43 AM by Francoeur

ManwiththePlan Since: Dec, 2009
#64: Dec 11th 2011 at 11:25:12 AM

[up][up] I'd rather have Bratty Half-Pint Ben and Gwen back than what they are now.

[up] Agreed, though in Charmcaster's case, "whitewashing" was just about the only thing they could do at that point seeing as she too had recieved a total downgrade as a villain.

And yes, aside from the often Out of Focus Grandpa Max, Paradox is the best character ever in this show. cool

edited 11th Dec '11 11:27:57 AM by ManwiththePlan

qtjinla15 Since: Dec, 2010
#65: Dec 11th 2011 at 5:45:34 PM

What do you mean by white-washing? And as a villain I didn't see much to Charmcaster's motivation besides being Evulz for the sake of it.

ManwiththePlan Since: Dec, 2009
#66: Dec 11th 2011 at 6:00:21 PM

And as a villain I didn't see much to Charmcaster's motivation besides being Evulz for the sake of it.

It was less "for the sake of it" and more "to show off her power and lash out at the world", like most teen delinquents except with magical powers.

And that's kind of the problem with retconning her motives into wanting to liberate her domain and free her people; none of her actions and her attitude in general in the previous series' suggested she had any noble or well meaning intentions. She knew damn well she was a bad guy and wanted to have fun with it. She had sympathetic points to her (mainly due to Hex's abuse), but nothing indicating good motives. The only reason I can accept the new direction is, again, she had become a really stale villainess before it came up.

edited 11th Dec '11 6:13:02 PM by ManwiththePlan

qtjinla15 Since: Dec, 2010
#67: Dec 11th 2011 at 7:08:13 PM

Yeah I understand what you're saying. Sudden retcons like that are a pain. And yeah, maybe not for the evil, but teen delinquent just lashing out is just as common. No matter what way you look at things from decay to sudden retcon the whole situation after her initial appearances were handled badly.

Just like the Osmosian insanity thing and many other retcons.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#69: Dec 12th 2011 at 1:29:04 AM

Which feels iffy, as if I remember correctly Charmcaster was extremely white.

I suppose you could kind of maybe argue that she looked sort of Romani, and that now she looks more Greek, but I wouldn't.

It's certainly not enough of a change to merit the use of the term whitewashing in that way.

Francoeur Since: Dec, 1969
#70: Dec 12th 2011 at 3:22:31 AM

[up] Then and now. Even if she was just a tanned caucasian rather than a different nationality or race the color change is still glaringly obvious (and before anyone tries to use the "that's just because the lighting is darker" excuse, even the lit up areas of her face are darker than her new skin tone).

edited 12th Dec '11 4:24:58 AM by Francoeur

ManwiththePlan Since: Dec, 2009
#71: Dec 12th 2011 at 7:46:59 AM

[up]Not much of a difference to me.

Just like the Osmosian insanity thing and many other retcons.

Gah, yes. That was even weaker than the reasoning behind Charmcaster's Heel–Face Turn and handled weaker. At least Charmcaster took throughout the episode with her new backstory to turn face. Kevin did it in the first episode of AF, with no reason behind it, and the Osmosian insanity thing came up much later than it should, considering it should be something Kevin ought to explain to his new friends shortly after turning face!

I am sort of glad for it as an Author's Saving Throw, since AF generally tried to pretend Kevin was just a delinquent ala Charmcaster rather than sociopathically crazy, but it was still handled in an Ass Pull manner.

edited 12th Dec '11 7:53:04 AM by ManwiththePlan

kyun Since: Dec, 2010
qtjinla15 Since: Dec, 2010
#73: Dec 12th 2011 at 8:51:07 AM

I see a slight tone difference, but the charmcaster thing doesn't bother me all that much. And yes, the ass-pull late series explanation still makes the writer's pet pairing jarring and badly done.

ManwiththePlan Since: Dec, 2009
#74: Dec 12th 2011 at 9:13:39 AM

[up] That's pretty much at the core of the problem I have with AF & UA. Though several ideas are interesting and even good, next to none of them are executed well due to the staff's blatant disregard for damn near everything laid down in Man of Action's original show. In this kind of business, you need to stick with continuity; the effects of just not caring turns many people off.

I like the idea of the true point of the Omnitrix being to ensure all species' survival, but the execution was bad. I like the idea of Charmcaster turning good, but the execution was bad. I like the idea of characters like Professor Paradox and Albedo, but their execution has gone bad too (Just how often do they show up, and just how much of an impact do they leave on the show? Answer: Not much.) I like the idea of Gwen and Kevin.....OK, I don't really like that one, but even that could have been executed well if their relationship actually built up and grew, rather than being forced in from the start. Long story short: AF/UA is a shining example of sadly wasted potential.

edited 12th Dec '11 9:20:14 AM by ManwiththePlan

FallenLegend Trickster. from Navel Of The Moon. Since: Oct, 2010
Trickster.
#75: Dec 12th 2011 at 1:30:18 PM

why was man of action replaced by dwayne again?

Make your hearth shine through the darkest night; let it transform hate into kindness, evil into justice, and loneliness into love.

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