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So Why Does Everyone Hate Ben 10: Alien Force?

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GethKnight Since: Apr, 2010
#26: Sep 16th 2010 at 6:23:25 PM

10 year olds aren't snot-nosed brats?

Nikkolas from Texas Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#27: Sep 16th 2010 at 6:45:46 PM

Not all of them. I know my cousin wasn't and I lived with a family friend with a couple ten-year-olds and they were nice enough.

Besides, I don't care if he is ten. If you make a show about a character and the character is just plain unlikable, you fail at basic storytelling.

SabreJustice Since: Dec, 1969
#28: Sep 16th 2010 at 11:51:41 PM

I remember my brother at 10 and I was definitely the bigger brat than he was. (teenager) Now, my brother at six on the other hand...

BonsaiForest Since: Jan, 2001
#29: Oct 15th 2010 at 6:46:39 AM

I liked the original Ben 10 until I think the third or fourth season. The storytelling seemed to go downhill somehow, but I can't remember quite why.

I really don't like this show. The original show, while it had its creepy moments, seemed less "dark" than this, more fun while still taking itself seriously, and I liked the characters more despite being snot-nosed jerks. They were flawed characters but still likeable in their own ways.

I don't mind Kevin as a good guy, but I do mind the radical personality change used to make him one. I think him being a begrudging hero would work better.

But I don't like the story of this show. I found Ben 10 fun. I don't find this fun. It just feels generic somehow. The original Ben 10 was a breath of fresh air. This just feels, to me, like they're going through the motions.

ManwiththePlan Since: Dec, 2009
#30: Oct 15th 2010 at 9:19:07 AM

As I detailed in my 2-part review of the show on this site, I don't HATE Alien Force, but I don't like it either. I didn't love the original show, but I did LIKE it. Glen Murakami and Dwayne McDuffie just took way too many liberties with Man of Action's concepts; all the retcons and changes (Gwen's powers, Kevin and Vilgax's character changes, the nature of the Omnitrix, etc.) bugged me just like it bugged alot of people. And while you got the sense in Ben 10 that MOA really loved and enjoyed working on the show, you just don't get that here with Murakami and McDuffie; it's just a job for them.

But apparently it was the greatest thing ever and AF is just an unworthy successor.

I don't recall any fans of the original show claiming it to be "the greatest thing ever"; they usually well-noted it's flaws. Heck, even I did on my review of the show (Ben and Gwen's characterization getting more flanderized and annoying being the biggest flaw.) It's just that alot of people, me included, found it better-handled and more "fun" than Alien Force, which should have been an advancement/improvement, but instead felt like a step down and almost in a different continuity altogether, and thus IS an unworthy successor.

Except Max who is awesome no matter what. Irritating as Ben and Gwen were at times, the shows villains were all great.

Yes, yes, YES. That's another big reason I actually prefer "Ben 10" to "Alien Force" and "Ultimate Alien". I could deal with Ben and Gwen's annoyingness due to Grandpa Max and the colorful Rogues Gallery who, while it could have stood to have more members with more layers than just being evil, rarely failed to entertain.

While Kevin, Grandpa Max's replacement, is still more entertaining than Ben and Gwen, he's just no Grandpa Max, and the new AF villains (save for Darkstar and the criminally underexposed Albedo) weren't interesting, and while some returning villains kept their quality in their first AF appearances (Dr. Animo and Charmcaster), they too joined Vilgax in plummeting into Villain Decay soon afterwards.

I liked the original Ben 10 until I think the third or fourth season. The storytelling seemed to go downhill somehow, but I can't remember quite why.

Agreed, the third and fourth seasons weren't as good as the first two. The third season's main storyline was weakly-written. Sure, Ghostfreak's plan was scary as shit, but other than that, the whole thing was bland and had a horrible Broken Aesop at the end. And while the fourth season had some great episodes (Ken 10, the two-part Ben vs. The Negative Ten, and the three-part Secret of the Omnitrix), it also was riddled with weak ones (Divied We Stand, Don't Drink the Water, Big Fat Alien Wedding, Ben 4 Good Buddy, and Ready To Rumble.)

If you make a show about a character and the character is just plain unlikable, you fail at basic storytelling.

The problem is that unlikable is in the eye of the beholder. A character one person likes will always be someone's Scrappy, after all. I personally found Ben often likable in the first two seasons and "Secret of the Omnitrix" myself. Every other time, yeah, as I said before, he and Gwen got worse as the show went on.

edited 15th Oct '10 9:35:51 AM by ManwiththePlan

EddieValiant,Jr. Not Quite Batman from under your bed. Since: Jan, 2010
Not Quite Batman
#31: Oct 15th 2010 at 3:52:56 PM

I find Ben 10 Alien Force to be the most tolerable incarnation of the franchise so far, not that I actually like any of them. In the original series, both Ben and Gwen were obnoxious, precocious, selfish brats in serious need of a stern talking-to, whereas later, whilst still generally uninteresting, they became people you might have cared about in a better-written show. The entire franchise seems like one big ball of stupid to me, but then again, maybe I'm outside the demographic. It doesn't seem to have room for a periphery.

edited 15th Oct '10 3:53:17 PM by EddieValiant,Jr.

"Religion isn't the cause of wars, it's the excuse." —Mycroft Next
ManwiththePlan Since: Dec, 2009
#32: Oct 15th 2010 at 6:21:28 PM

It doesn't seem to have room for a periphery.

Er, huh? just bugs me

edited 15th Oct '10 6:21:36 PM by ManwiththePlan

Etheru Since: Jul, 2009
ManwiththePlan Since: Dec, 2009
#34: Oct 15th 2010 at 10:18:15 PM

Honestly. Everything has a Periphery Demographic; Everything. Ben 10 would hardly be the strangest thing to have one.

edited 15th Oct '10 10:18:53 PM by ManwiththePlan

Etheru Since: Jul, 2009
#35: Oct 15th 2010 at 11:04:27 PM

I think that Ben 10's got a few adult fans, and even if you're not into that sort of thing, just one reminder: Cousin Shipping.

I'm not getting into this argument.

Ether101Prime Since: Jan, 2001
#36: Jul 31st 2011 at 8:56:29 PM

Alien Force and its follow up Ultimate Alien are full of so many plot holes and pointless retcons that it makes the post MGS 3 games look tame.

edited 1st Aug '11 2:18:42 PM by Ether101Prime

nabaduco Since: Oct, 2010
#37: Jul 31st 2011 at 9:03:41 PM

It was so different to original Ben 10 that I actually watched first season of Alien Force. It was all right. Plus since I never really watched Ben 10 more than the first two times in which I noticed I didn't like it, I didn't get bothered by the retcons or changes in characters.

Too bad the second season pretty much derailed everything and then the Ultimate alien stuff... it returned back to being closer to the original Ben 10, which I don't like.

edited 31st Jul '11 9:04:42 PM by nabaduco

ninjaclown Since: May, 2009
#38: Jul 31st 2011 at 9:06:18 PM

If there is an adult that likes this show, I haven't met him or even know he exists.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#39: Jul 31st 2011 at 9:46:47 PM

Depending on what you mean by adult, I possibly count. Old enough to drink and all that jazz. So you've met at least one. I don't love the show, but it's not half bad. Certain storylines catch my attention.

edited 31st Jul '11 9:47:06 PM by KnownUnknown

TheZMage Since: Oct, 2010
#40: Jul 31st 2011 at 9:50:52 PM

[up][up]Which show, the original or Alien Force. 'Cause if it's the original, I'm standing right here.

Yes, he was a snot nosed brat, but the show was pretty darn good at humbling him, too. And at least he had a personality, unlike the Alien Force incarnation (well, before the third season, where they went in the complete opposite way). It didn't make him seem mature, it just made him seem boring, and the same applies to Gwen's 'sanest person in the room' routine. And it wasn't necessarily that they changed so much, but that they replaced it with boring. Gone are the unique aliens with different weaknesses and fighting styles, in their place are a series of aliens with only two separate fighting styles (Smash and blast) and no discernible weaknesses. Gone is the superhero universe with infinite potential threats, and in its place is nothing but aliens (until they realized their mistake in the third season and retconned it)

The retcons are the most telling part of it. No sooner did the third season began than they started retconning so many of these things (Ben's personality, Gwen's magic) in the most inexpert way possible. Then Ultimate Alien came around and they started actually explaining so many of the changes that they've been dodging beforehand. They realized their mistakes and took effort to address them.

edited 31st Jul '11 9:51:24 PM by TheZMage

RandomChaos No Dragon Power from My own little world Since: Oct, 2011
No Dragon Power
#41: Aug 1st 2011 at 12:27:22 AM

Gwen x Kevin. If you know Anything about the aliens the show makes them into to then you would know it's like a human dating senate marijuana. Kevin was a villain on Ben Ten, he tried to kill a train full of people for money and that was just the first time he crossed the moral event horizon. But they forgive him for no reason. The Romance is poorly written and out of nowhere. Most of Ben's new aliens are combo plates of the old ones. Or Disappointments like Alien X and Goop. Gwen is supposed to be one of the most powerful aliens in the galaxy but her ten year old self from before she hade those powers could clobber her,Fan favorite villain chrmcaster was derailed from a power hungry brat to a bitch that tock over earth in an alternate time line. And the epasode about golden poop.

edited 1st Aug '11 12:42:34 AM by RandomChaos

With the power of a dragon I can make up for my inability to spill.
kyun Since: Dec, 2010
#42: Aug 1st 2011 at 6:54:10 AM

I already became jaded once Ultimate Alien came out. But I don't need to worry. I'll be old and completely disinterested in television once Ben90: Annoying Mothballs comes out.

Geostomp In the name of the POWER, I will punish you! from Arkansas, USA Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
In the name of the POWER, I will punish you!
#43: Aug 1st 2011 at 9:29:38 AM

Nobody would ever say that the original was a brilliant show, but it was aware of what it was: a fun fantasy. The aliens were unique, the transformations freakish, the characters wacky, the villains random, and the fights were entertaining. All and all, it was fun and appealed to that little part of you that never wanted to grow up.

Alien Force and beyond, on the other hand, it trying to be a generic, serious action show with a continuity and premise that just doesn't support it. All of the shallow aspects of the original are still around, but they're treated with absolute seriousness now. The few elements that were actually objectively well-done like the aliens, villains, voices, and fights have been replaced with dull imitations like the new Kevin and the boring as sin 'blast and smash' aliens. The materials as shallow as ever, but it no longer has the air of escapism to make it entertaining. All and all, the series is just generic action built on a foundation that just can't support such a thing. Combined, that makes the series beyond boring and actually grating to watch. It'd take some serious writing skill to salvage it in its current state that I just don't think the staff has.

"When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all" Futurama, Godfellas
RTaco Since: Jul, 2009
#44: Aug 1st 2011 at 10:13:27 AM

Not really a fan of either series. The original was full of awful jokes and an unlikable protagonist. Alien Force fixed those problems, but introduced a whole bunch of new ones: Ben went from annoying to boring (and later, back to annoying with almost no justification), tons of plot holes opened up, and the character designs became less creative. Ultimate Alien isn't any better.

StarOutlaw Since: Nov, 2010
#45: Aug 1st 2011 at 10:53:11 AM

As a whole, I consider the Ben 10 franchise to be So Okay, It's Average. The high point of it all for me was the DN Alien and Highbreed arc at the end of Alien Force. That's when I thought Ben 10 was at its best, especially when Paradox was involved.

Ultimate Alien though feels like a step back from Alien Force. I think my biggest problem with it is how Ben seems to have lost a lot of the maturity he gained in Alien Force. Not to mention how they changed Vilgax.

NickTheSwing Since: Aug, 2009
#46: Aug 2nd 2011 at 2:38:01 AM

One of my friends. An adult, works for a law group I think. Wrote some Darker and Edgier fanfic about it, and some sequels.

edited 2nd Aug '11 2:42:13 AM by NickTheSwing

HeavyDDR Who's Vergo-san. from Central Texas Since: Jul, 2009
Who's Vergo-san.
#47: Aug 2nd 2011 at 9:59:53 AM

I liked the original Ben 10 more than Alien Force. It had a nostalgic, childish feel reminiscent of Saturday morning cartoons. The villains were more or less clever on a low level, the settings were always interesting since it had a Tour of America theme to it, and overall it just wasn't very serious. I also grew very accustomed to the original 10 aliens, and him adding in more and more got confusing, some aliens never got a spotlight, etc.

I mean they removed Ghostfreak in favor of Cannonbolt. Ghostfreak! At first I was like "well I guess it is Ben 10," but then they started adding any alien race they felt like making a plot about.

... But yeah, I still prefer the original. Maybe I'm a tool but I liked the original formula it had.

edited 2nd Aug '11 10:01:42 AM by HeavyDDR

I'm pretty sure the concept of Law having limits was a translation error. -Wanderlustwarrior
TheZMage Since: Oct, 2010
#48: Aug 2nd 2011 at 10:20:08 AM

[up]Ghostfreak was always intended to leave the Omnitrix and become a bad guy. As a matter of fact, one of the first line readings for the Ghostfreak auditions was "Ben's not here any more"

Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#49: Aug 2nd 2011 at 2:51:10 PM

Ghostfreak was one of the least used aliens anyway, next to the little one whose name I can't recall...

HeavyDDR Who's Vergo-san. from Central Texas Since: Jul, 2009
Who's Vergo-san.
#50: Aug 2nd 2011 at 4:19:37 PM

[up]You're thinking of Graymatter, which got a lot of accidental uses to make up for it.

I liked Ghostfreak. They could have done a lot more with him then force him out of the Omnitrix after, what, three uses?

I'm pretty sure the concept of Law having limits was a translation error. -Wanderlustwarrior

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