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TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#16276: Mar 28th 2017 at 7:26:29 PM

US army is looking at autonamous drone helicopters as a possible method for extracting wounded troops and transporting them to a medical point. The makers of the drone copter mentioned in the article also point out it's potential civil uses. This is not the first time the army has toyed with teh idea of an autnamous medical rescue/retrieval drone or robot. There was a concept UGV that fit that very role some time ago but nothing ever came of it.

Various nations are already looking to the 6th Gen fighters Planning is for at least 15-20 years out so sometime in the 2030's.

Various desired features will likely be yes stealth, longer range, larger stealth payloads, AI or similar automated systems to help process data for pilots, Optional Manning (as in planes can be autonomous or manned as needed), some possible two seater designs with the 2nd seat possibly acting as a controller for accompanying or launched drones and drone swarms, we already know there are also plans to possibly mount laser weapons of unknown strength at least to counter missiles fired at aircraft, and finally at least Germany is looking to replace their Tornado with a Gen 6 craft. Chances are rather good these craft will incorporate more mature technologies introduced in Gen 5 craft such as the suites of data gathering, sensor systems, and data distribution among other technologies.

Who watches the watchmen?
MajorTom Since: Dec, 2009
#16277: Mar 29th 2017 at 5:21:41 AM

Various nations are already looking to the 6th Gen fighters

So the F-35 was that much of a fuck up that the entire 5th generation combat aircraft line is stillborn? That was quick. It's like the 3rd generation of jet aircraft (Century Series, F-4, Mig-21, etc.) being repeated all over again. They (generally) didn't last very long either before 4th generation aircraft (Teen Series, Mig-29, etc.) came about.

JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#16278: Mar 29th 2017 at 5:40:47 AM

[up] More like other countries don't want to admit their a generation behind so their hyping their new thing as next gen.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#16279: Mar 29th 2017 at 6:25:43 AM

Tom; Not even close. I will point out for you again Tom that work on aircraft often begins a decade or more in advance. The first of these craft as in the first examples to fly as in not production run are not even expected to show until the 2030's. Which matches numerous modern aircraft development cycles.

By the time we see the first craft there will likely have been more than a few changes to what they are going to put into the air.

For the US the craft is meant to work specifically with the new B-21.

Who watches the watchmen?
Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#16280: Mar 29th 2017 at 8:37:37 AM

Calling it now that if that horrible rag still exists in ~15 years, WIB will be bitching that these new 6th gen fighters are overpriced boondoggles and we should save money by buying a couple hundred more proven, cost-effective F-35s instead of pursuing the F-54.

MajorTom Since: Dec, 2009
#16281: Mar 29th 2017 at 4:02:21 PM

work on aircraft often begins a decade or more in advance.

Which reinforces my point about the F-35 stillbirthing the entire 5th generation. It was put to the drawing board in the late 90s. By the decade plus logic, it should have been in full-rate production and serving in combat as of no later than 2010. It's a minimum 7 years late, more actually 10+ years coming close to 15 given the original deployment schedules of flying them in 2004 and 2005. It's not that far away from 2020, it'll be a design that's already middle aged when it finally reaches actual operational capabilities (if it actually can accomplish that.)

If the 6th generation stuff is hitting the drawing board now and in the next couple of years it means that if done properly, combat ready aircraft of the 6th generation will be ready when 5th generation stuff is barely online.

It speaks volumes how stillborn the 5th generation is when only one aircraft has had a full production run (F-22) and all the others are still in evaluation, testing and development and yet the world's moving on to the 6th generation at least so goes the plan.

And the only rational reason why the 5th generation is so bereft of anything is the F-35 being a total fuck up.

edited 29th Mar '17 4:03:01 PM by MajorTom

AFP Since: Mar, 2010
#16282: Mar 29th 2017 at 4:39:26 PM

The B-36 Peacemaker, a Cold War era strategic bomber, started its design and development before the US entered World War II. By your logic, this means that previous-gen designs like the B-29 Superfortress were obvious lemons that we would have been better off cancelling (as an aside, the B-29 notoriously suffered from significant reliability problems that weren't fixed until the B-29D entered production after WWII).

Tom, slow, shallow breaths.

MajorTom Since: Dec, 2009
#16283: Mar 29th 2017 at 4:44:20 PM

^ En contrario cabrón, the B-36 ended up going nowhere as a plane. Perhaps because of its lengthy and outdated at time of adoption development process.

AFP Since: Mar, 2010
#16284: Mar 29th 2017 at 4:52:06 PM

Are you implying that the B-36 was developed prematurely? Oh my, this doesn't speak well for the 6th gen fighters, does it?

MajorTom Since: Dec, 2009
#16285: Mar 29th 2017 at 4:54:12 PM

No, it was developed too little, too late, and taking too long. By the time it was finished and ready, the era of the piston engine was over.

edited 29th Mar '17 4:54:44 PM by MajorTom

TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#16286: Mar 29th 2017 at 5:11:48 PM

Tom: No it doesn't reinforce your point at all. The F-35 did not still birth the 5th Gen fighters by any stretch of your unrealistic views. Again your reading comprehension is wanting sorely. 10-20 for the first craft to fly, not production models, first craft as in test bed. We are not expecting a tentative flying example until later in the 2030's at the early end.

Aircraft age is determined by hours on airframe. Given how new the craft are they have plenty of life in them yet.

It does not speak volumes at all. Once again you have no clue what you are going on about. In case you missed it nearly all nations experienced a delay between Gen 4 and 5 partly due to costs associated with developing Gen 5. The reason there have been delays in most other nations for Gen 5 has nothing to do with the F-35 at all. It has to do with costs of development, manufacture, and deployment.

AFP already shot the rest of that sloppy argument full of holes.

The B-36 for the record had over 300 production models and remained in service for a decade. The very first requirement started in 1941, first flew in 1946 and the first craft entered service in 1949. It served ten years from that point forward. It was also a transitional technology aircraft. Your comment on it is inaccurate to say the least.

edited 29th Mar '17 5:15:07 PM by TuefelHundenIV

Who watches the watchmen?
Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#16287: Mar 29th 2017 at 6:04:25 PM

Which reinforces my point about the F-35 stillbirthing the entire 5th generation. It was put to the drawing board in the late 90s. By the decade plus logic, it should have been in full-rate production and serving in combat as of no later than 2010. It's a minimum 7 years late, more actually 10+ years coming close to 15 given the original deployment schedules of flying them in 2004 and 2005. It's not that far away from 2020, it'll be a design that's already middle aged when it finally reaches actual operational capabilities (if it actually can accomplish that.)

If the 6th generation stuff is hitting the drawing board now and in the next couple of years it means that if done properly, combat ready aircraft of the 6th generation will be ready when 5th generation stuff is barely online.

It speaks volumes how stillborn the 5th generation is when only one aircraft has had a full production run (F-22) and all the others are still in evaluation, testing and development and yet the world's moving on to the 6th generation at least so goes the plan.

And the only rational reason why the 5th generation is so bereft of anything is the F-35 being a total fuck up.

OR most other major aircraft producing nations can't actually afford to keep up with modern fighter development. I mean, take a look at how many combat aircraft Russian 5th generation programs have actually delivered to militaries. And how about China? Well, they started taking the first limited deliveries of their 5th gen fighters literally this month and still need to use foreign engines. Turkey is buying the F-35 and still developing their own 5th gen fighter, and it isn't expected to enter service until 2023, but they have yet to even cut steel. Japan is buying the F-35 and still developing their own 5th generation fighter, which isn't expected to enter service until 2024, but at least unlike the Turkish project, the X-2 (to be designated F-3 on acceptance) at least exists as a real steel prototype. India is buying Russia's own white elephant AND working their own borderline vaporware 5th gen project that isn't even expected to fly as a prototype until 2025. Notice how these are all very long, expensive projects (sound familiar? perhaps like a certain American fighter project you have an irrational hateboner for?), most of which won't deliver product before there are hundreds or thousands of F-35s in the sky and American 6th gen aircraft are at late planning phases because modern fighter development is a long process.

"Oh, but the F-35 killed the 5th gen for our allies" you might say. The only major western buyers of the F-35 with any strong history of indigenous jet fighter production are the UK, which has bled off most of its own aerospace manufacturing, and Israel, which really just makes tweaks to planes they got elsewhere and gives them new designations (and they're getting their own tweaked F-35 model). And perhaps it stayed the hands of the Eurofighter Consortium members, as after all, F-35 buyers Italy and UK are home to a combined majority of the component companies of the Eurofighter Consortium, though if Germany, Spain, Austria, and whoever else in Europe wanted a different 5th generation fighter project, there'd probably be a project for it since they aren't buying the F-35. France has always preferred to do its own thing and develop its own fighter aircraft, and accordingly isn't buying the F-35, and yet, no indigenous 5th gen program, and it's not like a crowded market or even prior involvement in a current gen project ever stopped them (see: how we got the Rafale). Sweden also has a long history of making its own jet fighters and keeping up with the current generation and, nope, they aren't buying the F-35, but they also don't have a 5th gen project in the pipeline. odds are that either the price to get into the 5th gen game is too steep for most of these countries to get into it, or their most recent entries into the 4th gen are so late that they see entering the 5th generation as a waste of time and figure that if they started working on it now, they could have a 5th generation fighter that is obsolete when it rolls of the assembly line, or they could try to get in early on the sixth generation.

Oh, and no, 6th gen won't be here any time soon if it's just hitting the blueprints. 5th gen around the world has taken a long-ass time to get to even prototypes. This is going to be a long-ass generation of aircraft, just like the 4th generation, which kept introducing new members even as the first member of the 5th generation started coming online. Similarly, the first prototypes of the first entries in the 6th generation will start flying around the same time as many of the later members of the 5th generation finally enter service.

In conclusion, nothing speaks even a paragraph of the nonsense you're spouting about the 5th generation, much less puts the blame for it at the feet of the F-35 (it's almost as if the myriad problems with foreign 5th generation projects have absolutely no relation to the F-35). Besides, at least the F-35 is doing something only two other 5th generation projects are doing - delivering actual product to air forces, and one of those is no longer in production, and the other just started its low rate introduction this month.


Oh yes, the B-36 was so obsolete when it entered service that there were no mainline fighter aircraft that could so much as intercept it. It had a pretty damn good run for a project started in 1941.

edited 29th Mar '17 6:13:31 PM by Balmung

TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#16288: Mar 29th 2017 at 6:14:30 PM

Balmung: For the B-36 the Mig-15 was the reason they started looking to other concepts developed alongside the B-36 during WWII namely the B-52. Even then the B-36 still had a good decade of service life including use in test and experimental platforms before it was done.

Who watches the watchmen?
Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#16289: Mar 29th 2017 at 6:23:37 PM

Eh, even then, the B-36 at least first flew before anything that had much chance at reaching it (1946 vs the very end of 1947 for the MiG-15), though they entered actual service around the same time. And hey, again, not bad considering the times. Though it definitely got dunked on when they tried to adapt it into an 8-jet plane for the competition that gave us the B-52.

But then again, if we use total invulnerability as the sole metric of bomber viability, the B-52 and and Tu-95 should have both been decommissioned decades ago.

JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
#16290: Mar 29th 2017 at 7:06:00 PM

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised that the governments spending situation in the future will be so bad that we can't afford the 6th generation fighters.

I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.
Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#16291: Mar 29th 2017 at 7:18:46 PM

Look on the bright side - if you're right and we can't afford 6th gen, odds are nobody else will be able to buy them, either, except for maybe if the EU pools everything together.

But as usual, your predictions of gloom and doom are unlikely, and if they happen, will drag everyone else down, too.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#16292: Mar 29th 2017 at 7:22:17 PM

No, I'm sure China will be able to afford thousands and buy our nation out /s

Oh really when?
blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#16293: Mar 31st 2017 at 6:55:36 AM

Haven't you been saying China is so broke it's guaranteed to financially collapse in a few years?

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#16294: Mar 31st 2017 at 6:56:50 AM

Broke no, unstable yes.

It's why nobody actually likes to do any business with them. The US and most of the West has actually moved all it's cheap production demand into places like Vietnam and other parts of SEA.

edited 31st Mar '17 6:57:40 AM by LeGarcon

Oh really when?
math792d Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#16295: Mar 31st 2017 at 7:35:11 AM

Which is part of why the TPP was drafted.

And then some gleeful orange psychopath decided to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Sweden also has a long history of making its own jet fighters and keeping up with the current generation and, nope, they aren't buying the F-35, but they also don't have a 5th gen project in the pipeline.

Apparently they've had a carrier-born version of the Gripen mothballed in a design drawer for ages. The Swedes are weird. note 

edited 31st Mar '17 7:36:30 AM by math792d

Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.
Imca (Veteran)
#16296: Mar 31st 2017 at 11:27:18 AM

The TPP was the equivilent of killing an ant with a sledge hammer though, and did incredibly horible things to intelectual property in the process.

Killing it was one of the few good things Agent Orange ever did.

math792d Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#16297: Mar 31st 2017 at 1:27:24 PM

[up] Hence 'throwing the baby out with the bathwater.'

I wasn't a big fan of it either (and its intellectual property laws were downright draconian), but killing it still had unintended consequences.

Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#16298: Apr 6th 2017 at 6:14:41 PM

A test flight of a sub-scale version of DARPA's VTOL-X craft. Next is the UAV full scale version.

edited 6th Apr '17 6:14:57 PM by TuefelHundenIV

Who watches the watchmen?
Krieger22 Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018 from Malaysia Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Causing freakouts over sourcing since 2018
#16299: Apr 7th 2017 at 8:56:01 AM

Cockpit view of an AV-8 landing vertically and then taking off.

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot
blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#16300: Apr 7th 2017 at 11:34:10 AM

"Only the British would want a plane that curtsies". [lol]

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you

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