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Rename: Peggy Sue

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Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#1: Oct 24th 2010 at 10:18:09 AM

Now, I will be the first to say this does not seem to be misused, but hear me out. A significant length of the trope description keeps hammering in the point that this has nothing to do with Mary Sue. The first line, and a whole paragraph are dedicated to this. Now, add the proliferation of (Name) Sue tropes, who are all variations, forms, or whatever of the original Mary Sue trope, and this trope name just gets all the more puzzling to newcomers, who are likely to assume this is just another of these "Sue" tropes. So, why not rename it to remove the confusion and constant need to hammer that this has nothing to do with a Mary Sue? Also, not sure just how many younger people even know the trope namer; giving it all the problem inherent with character-named tropes with the extra confusion that the name sounds like something else entirely.

If we do rename it, Groundhog Peggy Sue probably needs to change too.

edited 24th Oct '10 10:18:46 AM by Ghilz

DonZabu Since: May, 2009
#2: Oct 24th 2010 at 10:44:03 AM

So what would you rename it to?

"Wax on, wax off..." "But Mr. Miyagi, I don't see how this is helping me do Karate..." "Pubic hair is weakness, Daniel-san!"
Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#3: Oct 24th 2010 at 12:12:39 PM

Since it's a plot, simply adding the context word "plot" to it would clarify that it's not related to the various MarySues, which are all characters.

So, Peggy Sue Plot.

Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#5: Oct 24th 2010 at 1:03:09 PM

Isn't Peggy Sue an established fanfiction term, though? Like Lemon, PWP and Self-Insert?

I'd back Peggy Sue Plot for that reason.

edited 24th Oct '10 1:03:32 PM by Iaculus

What's precedent ever done for us?
Marioguy128 Geomancer from various galaxies Since: Jan, 2010
Geomancer
#6: Oct 24th 2010 at 1:25:38 PM

I think we should just get rid of the "Sue" part of the name entirely.

You got some dirt on you. Here's some more!
Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#7: Oct 24th 2010 at 1:28:27 PM

Why? It's half of the pre-existing term.

What's precedent ever done for us?
Raso Cure Candy Since: Jul, 2009
Cure Candy
#8: Oct 24th 2010 at 1:29:28 PM

It is an established term for fanfics [1] so Peggy Sue Fanfic or Peggy Sue Plot will work or just leaving it alone.

Going by that wiki I linked We established it!

edited 24th Oct '10 1:39:17 PM by Raso

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Marioguy128 Geomancer from various galaxies Since: Jan, 2010
Geomancer
#9: Oct 24th 2010 at 1:40:52 PM

Probably because Sue can get people mixed up about what the name is define.

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TheGirlWithPointyEars Never Ask Me the Odds from Outer Space Since: Dec, 2009
Never Ask Me the Odds
#10: Oct 24th 2010 at 1:49:42 PM

...and I thought this was going to be something related to the Buddy Holly song. Whatever that might have been.

Okay then.

Peggy Sue Plot would at least be a little clearer. I like the idea of Relive Your Life or something like it though.

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DonZabu Since: May, 2009
#11: Oct 24th 2010 at 2:07:55 PM

Quicksave Plot?

"Wax on, wax off..." "But Mr. Miyagi, I don't see how this is helping me do Karate..." "Pubic hair is weakness, Daniel-san!"
Aquillion Since: Jan, 2001
#12: Oct 24th 2010 at 2:49:18 PM

One person referencing T Vtropes doesn't make it an established term. In a google search, even T Vtropes itself doesn't come up on the first page (despite the site itself having a high google ranking); no other references to the way we use it seemed to appear on any of the first five pages (after which I stopped looking.)

Also, going by the Google search, it fails the One Mario Limit — there are many other people named Peggy Sue, unrelated to this trope.

edited 24th Oct '10 2:50:16 PM by Aquillion

Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#13: Oct 24th 2010 at 4:15:53 PM

It's not just reliving your life, though. It's "character gets a chance to go back and live high school over again, without losing the memories that they have of what they did the first time and how it turned out." In other words, it's a subtrope of Mental Time Travel (The "go back and live part of your life over again, without losing the memories that they have of what they did the first time and how it turned out" trope) but specifically limited to High School.

Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Hi
#14: Oct 24th 2010 at 4:32:38 PM

I'd support making Peggy Sue Plot a redirect for now...not sure if I like the idea of actually renaming the page to that.

silver2195 Since: Jan, 2001
#15: Oct 24th 2010 at 5:05:20 PM

^^ Really? Because many of the examples don't involve high school.

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DonZabu Since: May, 2009
#16: Oct 24th 2010 at 6:26:32 PM

So no one likes Quicksave Plot?

"Wax on, wax off..." "But Mr. Miyagi, I don't see how this is helping me do Karate..." "Pubic hair is weakness, Daniel-san!"
Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#17: Oct 24th 2010 at 9:25:46 PM

Not really. For one it uses a videogame term when it's (generally) not a videogame trope. Two... Not really descriptive (Quicksave Plot makes me think of a "Groundhog Day" Loop)

On a related note, whatever we rename it to, I believe the important part is removing the Sue part. On the site, all the Sue tropes carry a specific meaning and baggage this one has nothing to do with. Just putting "Plot" at the end of the title fixes nothing - may as well just leave it be. Revisit Your Youth?

edited 24th Oct '10 9:31:22 PM by Ghilz

shimaspawn from Here and Now Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: In your bunk
#18: Oct 24th 2010 at 10:27:36 PM

Second Chance Plot?

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Antheia Whatever of Breath (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
Whatever of Breath
#19: Oct 25th 2010 at 11:56:12 AM

Knowing Then What You Know Now? (Nah. Actually, Peggy Sue Plot would probably be the best solution to the problem.)

If Peggy Sue is established, it should definitely be kept as a redirect.

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#20: Oct 25th 2010 at 12:16:46 PM

Don't think it's a pre-existing term (but I could be wrong) a google search for Peggy Sue (excluding results with T Vtropes and Peggy Sue Got Married in them) turns up mostly things about the song, the singer, or the band.

The Urban Dictionary's entries references the song, not the plot of the film.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#21: Oct 25th 2010 at 12:20:39 PM

I almost think this could reference Never Been Kissed somehow, but that's a plot about someone actually going back to high school and pretending to be a student again.

Hmm, it should have a more clearly accessible name regardless of any Pop-Cultural Osmosis the Trope Namer may have acquired.

edited 25th Oct '10 12:21:45 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Sackett Since: Jan, 2001
#22: Oct 26th 2010 at 7:36:38 AM

It's not about highschool. Highschool is just a common example.

It's about a person going back in time mentally while retaining their previous knowledge giving them a chance to relive their life.

It's a combination of Mental Time Travel and Set Right What Once Went Wrong limited to their own personal life. (Which, if they are the hero, might have repercussions for the entire world.)

edited 26th Oct '10 7:37:06 AM by Sackett

captaintheCaptaiN Since: Sep, 2009
#23: Dec 2nd 2010 at 10:32:32 PM

Would it be terrible to just call it Peggy Plot?

Heatth (X-Troper) Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#24: Dec 2nd 2010 at 11:19:06 PM

Searching in the Fanfiction.net, I discovered there is only one fic that describe itself as "Peggy Sue".

So, yeah, not an established term.

That being said, I have to ask the standard question: Is it broken? The main reason the OP cited for changing is it may cause confusion. I agree, it is a misleading title, I think. However, personally I've never have seen it being misused (not have the OP, apparently) so it saying it may be confusion is kinda moot, since it don't seem to be confusing anyone. And changing a name also may be confusing, for that matter.

So, I vote for leaving it alone unless it is proven it have a significant number of misuss.

Ramenth Since: May, 2009
#25: Dec 22nd 2010 at 1:15:32 PM

If someone can come up with a decent name, I'm all for it. So far, no one seems to have done so. That said, the problem is in the trope description, not the trope name. Edit out the 'This isn't a mary sue' parts and everything is fine.

Heatth, Fanfiction.net searches are terrible. This is a common term that's thrown around a lot, if not on FF.net then at least in many discussion sites.


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