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Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#14251: Jul 27th 2012 at 9:48:47 AM

Does it amuse anyone else that the current HEAT round for the Abrams is armor piercing, fin stabilized, and discards a sabot, but is the round you're not supposed to use for anti tank purposes?

Fight smart, not fair.
Flanker66 Dreams of Revenge from 30,000 feet and climbing Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Dreams of Revenge
#14252: Jul 27th 2012 at 9:51:50 AM

Well, I'm just back from a weapons training session involving the L98A2 (or rather the L103A2 version), and I have rather suddenly remembered just how bloody heavy the thing is. And that's not mentioning how stiff some of the parts are, although that might just be down to my noodle-like arms. It isn't bad per se (aside from the spring that can launch itself at your head when you disassemble the TMH to get at the interior components), just kind of a pain in the arse for someone who's lacking in the strength department.

Locking you up on radar since '09
InverurieJones '80s TV Action Hero from North of the Wall. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
'80s TV Action Hero
#14253: Jul 27th 2012 at 9:53:39 AM

wonder how many soldiers in action actually carry family photos.

Quite a few, I think. The rest carry porn. Some carry both. In some cases, both in one picture...

[up] Woooah...they give spaceys gas-parts for the L98 now?! Is that wise?

The L103 variant is new to me. Never seen them before.

edited 27th Jul '12 9:58:33 AM by InverurieJones

'All he needs is for somebody to throw handgrenades at him for the rest of his life...'
Flanker66 Dreams of Revenge from 30,000 feet and climbing Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Dreams of Revenge
#14254: Jul 27th 2012 at 9:59:45 AM

Erm... pardon?

@Deboss:

Forgot to mention this, but yeah that is kind of strange...

@Image on last page:

Heh.

Locking you up on radar since '09
InverurieJones '80s TV Action Hero from North of the Wall. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
'80s TV Action Hero
#14255: Jul 27th 2012 at 10:03:06 AM

Spaceys. Cadets.

Gas-parts being the little piston bits that let you go 'blam-blam-blam' or even 'dakkadakkadakka' should the need arise...the L 98 A 1 didn't have them.

edited 27th Jul '12 10:03:45 AM by InverurieJones

'All he needs is for somebody to throw handgrenades at him for the rest of his life...'
Flanker66 Dreams of Revenge from 30,000 feet and climbing Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Dreams of Revenge
#14256: Jul 27th 2012 at 10:08:14 AM

Oh. Sorry, I'm not really that up-to-the-minute on that sort of slang.

And if the weapons we were given to practice on were any indication, yes, they do indeed have gas parts. Most of the parts were easy enough to assemble and remove, but the gas piston was kind of fiddly to put back into place. This is because you need to have the rear section slot in to the right hole, and since it's actually really hard to find said hole with anything except feeling, it results in a lot of blind prodding and mounting frustration. tongue

...Should I take this to the gun thread instead?

edited 27th Jul '12 10:08:37 AM by Flanker66

Locking you up on radar since '09
InverurieJones '80s TV Action Hero from North of the Wall. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
'80s TV Action Hero
#14257: Jul 27th 2012 at 10:14:57 AM

Ah, yeah. I spent soooo much time poking about in the dark, trying to get the damn thing in the right hole.

And the recoil rod assembly on the SA 80 is a pain, too...

'All he needs is for somebody to throw handgrenades at him for the rest of his life...'
Balmung Since: Oct, 2011
#14258: Jul 27th 2012 at 10:24:42 AM

I'm told that the later models of the SA80 fixed a lot of the problems, though it's probably not much if any easier to disassemble/reassemble.

edited 27th Jul '12 10:25:17 AM by Balmung

InverurieJones '80s TV Action Hero from North of the Wall. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
'80s TV Action Hero
#14259: Jul 27th 2012 at 10:27:53 AM

Actually, it gets really easy once you've done it a few gajillion times, though trying not to twat yourself in the face with recoil spring remains tricky.

'All he needs is for somebody to throw handgrenades at him for the rest of his life...'
TamH70 Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
#14260: Jul 27th 2012 at 10:44:40 AM

At least the Cadets don't have to mess around with the Gen1 Ensign (the sunday name for the L98 A1). As that was an unreconstructed piece of shit.

My old detachment commander is spinning in his grave at the thought of Cadets getting hold of semi-automatic rifles. I had a knock down stand up argument with him over that very issue back in the late 80s. Just at the point where we were giving up our beloved Lee Enfields and transitioning over to the new super whizzy space-age piles of junk.

As well as the gas parts, the new one has a flash eliminator. Which means that they can get the SBFS, or Safe Blank Fire System, meaning the safe range for firing blanks is a tenth of what it used to be. (Five metres, rather than fifty)

Flanker66 Dreams of Revenge from 30,000 feet and climbing Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Dreams of Revenge
#14261: Jul 27th 2012 at 11:01:20 AM

I know your pain, Jones. I kind of just gently eased the TMH away like I'm about to release a lion or something, while keeping my fingers ready to swoop in and stop the recoil spring from making me look like a low grade Bond villain.

Apparently the Cadets did have to deal with the A1 variant at one point in time, although thankfully I only joined up when the L98A2 was already kicking about. And what was the issue your commander had, Tam? I'm sorry if it should've been obvious in the context, occasionally I can struggle a bit to parse sentences.

Locking you up on radar since '09
TamH70 Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
#14262: Jul 27th 2012 at 11:10:22 AM

[up]Yeah, I should have said which Cadets. The ones nowadays don't know they are born, neither they don't. 8-)

The issue my Captain had was that he didn't like the idea of 12 years old kids and upwards having access to rifles that went bang bang bang as fast as they could pull the trigger until the magazine ran out of bullets. Knowing some of the ones in my old Detachment and Battalion, I don't really blame him.

There is a trick to getting the recoil rod and spring assembly out without having the thing bounce off the walls and ceiling but it is easier demonstrated rather than written down and read.

edited 27th Jul '12 11:12:13 AM by TamH70

TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#14263: Jul 27th 2012 at 1:23:19 PM

Deboss: Which round you talking about specifically?

Who watches the watchmen?
Flanker66 Dreams of Revenge from 30,000 feet and climbing Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Dreams of Revenge
#14264: Jul 27th 2012 at 3:07:14 PM

@Tam:

Yeah, I guess he has a point. One (possibly former) member of our squadron in particular, well... let's just say that I wouldn't trust him with a rubber band, never mind a gun (though this has less to do with outright malice and rather an inability to listen to instructions for more than 5 minutes). The other members of my squadron are less dangerous, thankfully.

And anything is better than having to act like you're defusing a bomb. Anything.

I'm not going off-topic for this thread, am I? If so, I'll knock it off.

Locking you up on radar since '09
Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#14265: Jul 27th 2012 at 3:13:09 PM

I'm making a reference on the Abrams 120 mm HEAT and APFSDS rounds. The HEAT round is armor piercing, stabilized by fins, and sub caliber with a discarding sabot. So, the designation for the Sabot round fits the description of the current HEAT round. Just something funny about military designations for rounds. I probably would have gone for EFP and HVLRP instead of the other names.

edited 27th Jul '12 3:13:45 PM by Deboss

Fight smart, not fair.
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#14266: Jul 27th 2012 at 5:34:13 PM

The Acronym is HEAT-MP-T which means High Explosive Anti-Tank Multi Purpose Tracer. This round is used to engage a variety of targets including tanks. Not all tanks the U.S. encounters on the battle field are not all current generation tanks. As for the fins. Quite a few munitions have pop out or built in fins on them. Some are Saboted shot. I believe they don't call it a Sabot shot in the description is keep it distinguished from the DU-APFSDS rounds.

Who watches the watchmen?
Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#14267: Jul 27th 2012 at 7:57:07 PM

I was lead to believe that SOP was to engage tanks with the DU-APFSDS and use the HEAT for softer targets as the Sabot is better at destroying tanks. There's the M809 and the Canister rounds as well, but nobody cares about those.

They don't call it Sabot for that exact reason. Each round needs its own designation that can be shouted at high volume and understood quickly. This tends to be something like one to two syllables with hard consonants (Sabot, Heat, Can, presumably Demo for the 809).

I just think it's silly to describe a weapon by what it's for (anti tank), rather than what it does differently from other rounds.

Fight smart, not fair.
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#14268: Jul 27th 2012 at 8:43:20 PM

It has anti-tank part of HEAT because it can be used in that capacity if you need to. It would take more hits then with the DU shot. The reason it is saboted is to give it velocity and therefore better range. The current Gen of the round has a selectable fuse so it can be fired at a variety of targets.

It is primarily for use against various armoured targets, bunkers, enemy troop concentrations, helicopters, and soft vehicles.

Modern tankers have these nifty headsets they wear so they can talk to each other and not hvae to try and yell over the noise of a tank in battle.

I need to pop over to beyond the lampshade and ask Martello if he knows what they call the rounds in vehicle.

A tank also only carries so many DU rounds and may be over kill on the older tanks the U.S. might face like a say a Soviet T-55 which is still fielded by a variety of countries and groups.

edited 27th Jul '12 8:44:25 PM by TuefelHundenIV

Who watches the watchmen?
Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#14269: Jul 27th 2012 at 10:57:56 PM

True, versatility is often a highly desired goal. I don't think they even issue the 809 normally since you can't really use it on anything but obstacles and it's just the warhead from the HEAT round with a steel nose cone instead of smart sensor.

Fight smart, not fair.
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#14270: Jul 28th 2012 at 6:37:31 AM

Which shell is the 809? I know the M830 had become the M830A1 with different nose cones and specialized fuses.

The Israelis have a guided 120mm Shell that I found kind of interesting. The LAHAT I think it is? The U.S. is working on something similar except the U.S. intends to have theirs as a fire and forget munition.

edited 28th Jul '12 6:57:29 AM by TuefelHundenIV

Who watches the watchmen?
MarkVonLewis Since: Jun, 2010
#14271: Jul 28th 2012 at 9:39:03 AM

So I apparently got a stripper's phone number last night. Dunno how. Woke up with a massive hangover and a phone number.

TamH70 Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
MarkVonLewis Since: Jun, 2010
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#14274: Jul 28th 2012 at 9:59:20 AM

That you know of.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#14275: Jul 28th 2012 at 9:59:42 AM

Mark; Seconding getting a check from the doc and cutting back on the heavy boozing. If your blacking out and missing parts of your night you really are over doing it. Don't be the dumbass that runs into windows instead of opening doors.

edited 28th Jul '12 10:00:10 AM by TuefelHundenIV

Who watches the watchmen?

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