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LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#61001: Apr 8th 2021 at 7:11:34 AM

"Special forces" had a bit of a different definition in WW 1 due to the nature of the war, comparisons to the more modern organizations and mission types that started in WW 2 won't be perfect.

Lawrence is good example, the Arditi and the first German Stormtroopers are also pretty interesting to read up on.

Oh really when?
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#61002: Apr 8th 2021 at 7:14:10 AM

That was a guerilla army, not special forces. The thing with special forces is that they are very heavily dependent upon advanced accurate intelligence regarding the target. I don't think the warring powers during WWI had the systems to collect that type of intelligence.

"What's the hold-up Sarge?"

"We're waiting for that Sopwith Camel to land and telegraph the blueprints to us!"

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#61003: Apr 8th 2021 at 7:17:39 AM

They could toss a brick down with a note tied to it.

Though it's worth saying that well trained foreign advisor leading and training local guerillas in asymmetric warfare is very much the domain of special forces.

We were doing that all during the Soviet's stint into Afghanistan and it was one of the original missions of the Green Berets during the Cold War. They were going to be stay behind forces when the Soviets inevitably took Germany and big chunks of France.

Oh really when?
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#61004: Apr 8th 2021 at 8:36:36 AM

Yeah, we're talking the sort of "small, well equipped groups trained to get in, do a huge amount of damage and then get out again before the enemy had any idea what was going on" raiding units that would go on to inspire the WW 2 commandos.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#61005: Apr 8th 2021 at 9:33:27 AM

A small group of skilled soldiers would probably have been used as marines back in WW 1 if they weren’t assisting guerilla forces behind enemy lines.

They wouldn’t particularly resemble modern special forces though, as warfare was a large-scale thing with pretty firm battle lines on the western front.

Remember that WW 2 commandos did a lot of their work dealing with the very mailable battle line of the French coast.

Small highly skilled groups are effective because they can manoeuvre with ease, it’s hard to manoeuvre around a trench line that goes from the North Sea down to the Alps.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#61006: Apr 8th 2021 at 6:10:32 PM

And as for the likes of Navy SEAL, well, if not even the Marines saw much action during the WWI until near the end of the Spring Offensive (and the legendary Battle of the Belleau Woods), I can't imagine the SEAL being that much useful either.

Unless they got a size of at least a brigade and have some few tanks, but by that point it's not really a "navy" special force unit, is it? [lol]

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
eagleoftheninth Shop all day, greed is free from a dreamed portrait, imperfect Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Shop all day, greed is free
#61007: Apr 8th 2021 at 6:32:44 PM

They mostly spent the era putting down various insurgencies in Central America, while the Army mounted expeditionary raids into Mexico as part of the US intervention in the country's revolution/civil war.

One day, we will read his name in the news and cheer.
AFP Since: Mar, 2010
#61008: Apr 9th 2021 at 3:29:03 AM

I mean, the US Navy operated railway batteries during WWI, which might be the earliest example of the US Navy's interest in railguns.

TairaMai rollin' on dubs from El Paso Tx Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Mu
rollin' on dubs
#61009: Apr 9th 2021 at 7:17:01 PM

Now China Has Cruise Missile Carrying Catamarans Chasing Away Ships In The South China Sea

Chinese stealthy catamaran fast-attack missile craft have reportedly been involved in an incident with a boat chartered by a Philippine media company in the hotly contested waters of the South China Sea. According to an account citing ABS-CBN reporter Chiara Zambrano, the Type 022 Houbei class vessels appeared today in the Second Thomas Shoal, a submerged reef located in the disputed Spratly Islands. The missile craft then apparently aggressively chased away the boat operated on behalf of the ABS-CBN news crew, which had been sailing in the area to monitor the movements of other Chinese vessels.

Because Gunboat Diplomacy worked out so well in the past.

I tried to walk like an Egyptian and now I need to see a Cairo practor....
eagleoftheninth Shop all day, greed is free from a dreamed portrait, imperfect Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Shop all day, greed is free
#61010: Apr 9th 2021 at 7:30:18 PM

Oh hey, I was just reading about the Type 022 the other day. Looks like missile catamarans are the current fad in that stretch of waters — Taiwan is developing the Tuo Chiang class of corvettes, which has about twice the displacement but looks fairly similar.

One day, we will read his name in the news and cheer.
TheWildWestPyro from Seattle, WA Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#61012: Apr 10th 2021 at 7:25:35 PM

[up]

US military general officers' decision making, everybody.

nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#61013: Apr 10th 2021 at 7:34:02 PM

75 years on from WWII and the US military still has the absolute dumbest cases of interservice rivalry imaginable. Amazing.

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#61014: Apr 10th 2021 at 7:35:19 PM

Sometimes I wonder if letting the Air Force become it's own branch was a wise idea

Oh really when?
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#61015: Apr 10th 2021 at 7:51:51 PM

A little bit of context:

"The U.S. Air Force general in charge of managing the service’s bomber inventory slammed the Army’s new plan to base long-range missiles in the Pacific, calling the idea expensive, duplicative and “stupid.”


"In a stunning slap at a sister service, the commander of Air Force’s Global Strike Command said March 31 that the Army’s deep strike effort was “a stupid idea” that was wasting money on something the Air Force “has mastered.”

As the former U.S. Army Pacific commanding general, it is difficult to understand how a senior military officer could be so out of touch with the direction America’s most threatening adversaries have taken over the past 10 to 15 years. I’m also disappointed that at a critical time in the defense budget process, Air Force Gen. Timothy Ray would try to plant the idea that the Army is wasting money on something he thinks the Air Force has perfected."


"The Pentagon, which has named China the "pacing threat" in the region, has often looked for solutions to deter the enemy, especially if the U.S. can make China worry about a shifting array of locations rather than fixed bases.

Air Force officials have said the Pacific's vast expanses are well-suited for bombers to carry out this task since they are always on the move, giving friendly forces more flexibility for long-range strike.

The news of Ray's comments spilled over into social media, where some experts noted that the long-range strike mission should be a collaborative effort.

"This type of parochial, 'stay-out-of-my-mission-area' thinking is fit for 1991-2015, not an era where the services have to conten[d] with a peer competitor that enjoys a geographic military advantage," tweeted Eric Sayers, a visiting fellow at the American Enterprise Institute and a former special assistant to the commander at U.S. Pacific Command.

"Strike is a mission, but building redundancy of strike forces across the services is a strategy," Sayers told Military.com on Tuesday. "The best strategy is one of duplication of mission in the blunt force."

Edited by DeMarquis on Apr 10th 2021 at 10:52:37 AM

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
eagleoftheninth Shop all day, greed is free from a dreamed portrait, imperfect Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Shop all day, greed is free
#61016: Apr 10th 2021 at 7:59:59 PM

Isn't that the kind of mission set that the Marines were already itching to pick up? And axed their tank fleet over?

One day, we will read his name in the news and cheer.
TairaMai rollin' on dubs from El Paso Tx Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Mu
rollin' on dubs
#61017: Apr 10th 2021 at 8:18:11 PM

The Marines wanted an anti-ship role and want more drones - at least the Brass at the Pentagon wants to go that route.

Another note:

Air Force Drops 'Space,' 'Cyber' from Mission Statement as Space Force Gains Momentum

     Military.com | By Oriana Pawlyk  

For the first time in more than a decade, the U.S. Air Force has a new mission statement.

The service on Thursday unveiled its operational goal as, "To fly, fight, and win. … Airpower anytime, anywhere."

"As we developed this new mission statement, we consulted Airmen from across the entire spectrum — enlisted, officers, reservists, guardsmen and civilians," Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Charles "CQ" Brown said in a release accompanying the announcement.

Read Next: Navy Destroyer Hopper's Commanding Officer Fired Over Morale Problems

The Air Force added "cyberspace" to its mission statement in 2005, citing growing threats to the nation's network security. That year, the service changed the wording to, "Deliver sovereign options for the defense of the United States of America and its global interests — to fly and fight in air, space and cyberspace."

Then in 2008, it updated its mission statement again to, "Fly, fight and win... in air, space and cyberspace." It wasn't immediately clear how long "space" has been a part of the Air Force mission.

But the U.S. Space Force was created in December 2019, taking over the space mission.

"The Air Force can now focus solely on Airpower and maintain a sustained focus on core air domain missions," the release states.

The Space Force does not have an official mission statement, but does have a description of its responsibilities. Its motto, "Semper Supra," translates to "always above."

An Air Force spokesperson told Military.com that "cyber" was also dropped from the mission statement because "it is a joint capability that all the services contribute to."

"The ability to fight and win with Airpower is key to facing emerging competitors and near-peer adversaries," the release states.

Leaders said the 689,000 Air Force personnel worldwide contribute to airpower through the service's five core missions: air superiority; global strike; rapid global mobility; intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance; and command and control.

"Delivering airpower for our nation requires more than just aircraft," Brown said in the release. "It requires total force Airmen — active-duty, Guard, Reserve, civilians — in all Air Force specialties working together as a seamless team to operate, maintain, and enable our mission and bring the unique capabilities and effects of airpower to bear."

"As the new mission statement was formulated, it was important to us that all Airmen see where they fit in," added Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force Jo Anne Bass. "Every Airman, from every career field, is directly responsible for delivering, supporting, launching and driving Airpower, which is the culmination of our diverse specialties, expertise and capabilities that make up our great Air Force."

I tried to walk like an Egyptian and now I need to see a Cairo practor....
eagleoftheninth Shop all day, greed is free from a dreamed portrait, imperfect Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Shop all day, greed is free
#61018: Apr 10th 2021 at 8:20:56 PM

Nearly 40% of Marines have declined Covid-19 vaccine. Probably only a matter of time until the Navy disowns them and leaves Space Force to adopt them at this point.

    Article 
Washington (CNN) Nearly 40% of US Marines are declining Covid-19 vaccinations, according to data provided to CNN on Friday by the service, the first branch to disclose service-wide numbers on acceptance and declination.

As of Thursday, approximately 75,500 Marines have received vaccines, including fully vaccinated and partially vaccinated service men and women. About 48,000 Marines have chosen not to receive vaccines, for a declination rate of 38.9%.

CNN has reached out to the other services for acceptance and declination rates.

The corresponding acceptance rate for vaccinations among Marines — 61.1% — is not far off the military estimate of two-thirds, or about 66%.

Another 102,000 Marines have not yet been offered the vaccines. The total number of Marines includes active-duty, reserves and Individual Mobilization Augmentee Marines.

The declination rate at Camp Lejeune in North Carolina, one of the prominent Marine Corps bases, was far higher, at 57%, according to another set of data provided to CNN. Of 26,400 Marines who have been offered vaccinations, 15,100 have chosen not to receive them, a number that includes both II Marine Expeditionary Force and Marine Corps Installation East — Camp Lejeune. Another 11,500 active-duty Marines are scheduled to be offered the vaccines.

"We fully understand that widespread acceptance of the Covid-19 vaccine provides us with the best means to defeat the pandemic. The key to addressing the pandemic is building vaccine confidence," Marine Corps spokeswoman Col. Kelly Frushour told CNN in a statement.

Frushour said there are a number of potential reasons a Marine may choose not to receive a vaccine, including allowing others to receive it first, waiting until it becomes mandatory, getting it through other channels or being allergic to the vaccine.

"Service members who decline one day can change their mind and become vaccinated when next the opportunity presents itself," she said.

CNN reported last month that the rejection rate for vaccination among service members may be close to 50%, a number notably higher than the 33% figure defense officials have used publicly.

The military cannot make the vaccines mandatory now because they have only emergency use authorizations from the Food and Drug Administration, meaning service members who are required to receive a series of other vaccinations have the option of declining shots to protect against Covid-19.

Officials say most of the vaccine hesitancy stems from concerns about the speed at which the vaccines were developed and fears over long-term effects.

The Defense Department has approximately 2.2 million service members operating around the globe. For every 10 percentage point drop in the acceptance rate, that's 220,000 individuals opting not to receive vaccines, a number potentially large enough to affect force readiness. Last year, the military experienced a handful of high-profile Covid outbreaks, including one aboard an aircraft carrier deployed in the Pacific.

Last month, a group of Democratic lawmakers called on President Joe Biden to issue a "waiver of informed consent" to make getting vaccinated against Covid-19 mandatory for all US military service members, writing in a letter that "disinformation and vaccine skepticism" are influencing service members to opt out of being vaccinated.


The French armed forces are planning for high-intensity war.

    Article 
In the forests and plains of the Champagne-Ardenne region, where once the great powers went into battle, the French armed forces are beginning to prepare for the return of a major conflict. Planned for 2023, Exercise Orion is a full-scale divisional exercise that will last several days, based probably out of camps at Suippes, Mailly and Mourmelon. It will involve the full range of French military capacity on a scale not tested for decades. The drill will include command-post exercises, hybrid scenarios, simulation and live-fire drills. Around 10,000 soldiers could take part, as well as the air force and, in a separate maritime sequence, the navy. Belgian, British and American forces may join in.

There are other signs that the French armed forces are in the midst of a generational transformation. In January the general staff quietly established ten working groups to examine the country’s readiness for high-intensity war. French generals reckon that they have a decade or so to prepare for it. The groups cover everything from munition shortages to the resilience of society, including whether citizens are “ready to accept the level of casualties we have never seen since world war two”, says one participant. The spectre of high-end war is now so widespread in French military thinking that the scenario has its own acronym: hem, or hypothèse d'engagement majeur (hypothesis of major engagement). The presumed opponents are unnamed, but analysts point not only to Russia, but also Turkey or a North African country.

That represents a seismic shift for French forces. Thirty years ago they mostly did peacekeeping. Over the past decade, they have turned to counter-insurgency and counter-terrorism, whether abroad (Opération Barkhane in the Sahel) or at home (Opération Sentinelle). But in his strategic vision for 2030 published last year, General Thierry Burkhard, the head of the French army, called for preparing for high-intensity, state-on-state conflict.

“We absolutely have to prepare for a more dangerous world,” General Burkhard recently told The Economist. This requires what he calls a “hardening” of the land army. Currently France keeps 5,100 troops in the Sahel as part of Barkhane. Future operations “could involve brigades, or a division”, meaning 8,000-25,000 soldiers. The need to change scale over the next decade, says the general, will require a mix of reforms: more demanding recruitment; investment in modern equipment; simpler organisational structures to make the army more nimble; and toughened training for a major conflict. “We will be tested more and more brutally,” he says. “We need to realise this.”

When Emmanuel Macron was elected president in 2017, the armed forces initially doubted his commitment to military spending. After imposing a round of short-term cuts, he rowed publicly with General Pierre de Villiers, then head of the joint chiefs of staff, prompting the general to resign. Since then, however, Mr Macron has kept a campaign promise to invest heavily in France’s soldiers.

The defence budget for 2019-25 got a big boost, taking annual spending to €50bn ($59bn) by the end of the period, by which time it will be 46% up on its level of 2018. Weighted towards the later years, the budget allows military planners to think ahead, buy kit and reorganise. “It’s the first time in memory that we have a reasonable fit between the planning documents and the budget allocated,” says François Heisbourg of the Foundation for Strategic Research in Paris. It also means that France now meets its nato commitment to spend at least 2% of its gdp on defence.

The core of French military modernisation is the Scorpion programme, a $6.8bn project to replace virtually every front-line motorised and armoured vehicle in the army, upgrade the 1990s-era Leclerc tank and connect all these together over a new digital network. The idea is that a first fully-equipped Scorpion brigade should be ready by 2023. Rémy Hémez, a French officer and researcher, says that in the 15 years between 2010 and 2025 the army’s equipment will have changed more than it did in the four decades between 1970 and 2010.

Marchons, marchons

In many respects, France’s approach to future war differs from the tech-heavy vision recently unveiled by Britain. Whereas Britain is cutting troops and armour, France is keeping 60% more soldiers than Britain plans to, and 50% more tanks. It has been relatively slow to acquire and arm drones. “There is a great risk of falling behind as automation on the battlefield accelerates,” warned a report by the Institut Montaigne, a think-tank. Indeed, French officers tend to be more sceptical than British or American ones that technology will transform the battlefield. “Technology is never 100% effective,” warns General Burkhard. “Soldiers must always be able to fight in a degraded way… when the technology does not work any more.”

That does not mean France is ignoring new domains of war; space, in particular, is a priority. In September last year France’s air force became the “Air and Space Force”, having earlier set up a new military space command in Toulouse. The French armed forces are also expanding their information warfare and cyber capabilities. In December 2020 Facebook and Instagram removed a network of 100 fake accounts linked to the French armed forces after they sparred with Russian-backed ones over the Central African Republic and Mali, among other African battlegrounds where the two countries vie for influence.

As France starts to gear up its armed forces for all these new forms of warfare, however, there are a number of serious challenges. The Sahel experience, says General Burkhard, is “undeniably a real strength”. Over a vast area of semi-arid scrub, soldiers and special forces take part in high-risk combat operations, which are both technically and tactically challenging. The French army has reported 57 deaths since 2013. Yet Barkhane is a highly asymmetric conflict, in which the French enjoy air supremacy, with no communications interference or threat from drones, missiles or cyber-attacks.

The other problem is that French forces are being pulled in several directions at once. In mid-March a dozen French tanks, 160 armoured vehicles and 300 troops arrived in Tapa, in Estonia. They were the latest French contribution to the nato battlegroups stationed in Poland and the Baltic states to deter Russian attack. Indeed military staff assume future engagements would be alongside allies—if not nato, then at least America, or a coalition of the willing. These modernisation efforts are consistent both with nato’s priorities and with Mr Macron’s desire for Europe to bolster its indigenous defences, though France and others remain reliant on American support for key enabling assets, like airlift and air defence.

In addition to eastern Europe, France is increasingly preoccupied to the south. In the eastern Mediterranean, France and Turkey have quarrelled over Libya, Syria and Cyprus, prompting Mr Macron to dispatch two warplanes and a frigate to Greek waters last August. France is also deeply involved in the Indo-Pacific, where its overseas territories contain 1.6m French citizens and 7,000 soldiers. France has sustained a steady naval presence in the area.

The catch is that the navy has just 15 major surface ships to deal with all these issues, points out Admiral Pierre Vandier, France’s chief of naval staff. “All of us Europeans are on thin ice. We may stretch our forces between doing well in the Atlantic, doing well in the Med, doing well in the Gulf and doing well in the Indo-Pacific.” Prioritising between these is no longer a job for the armed forces, he says, but “a political decision” for Mr Macron, or for his successor. “We will have choices to make, for sure.”

Edited by eagleoftheninth on Apr 10th 2021 at 8:24:14 AM

One day, we will read his name in the news and cheer.
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#61019: Apr 10th 2021 at 8:35:28 PM

I'm surprised that they give soldiers any choice in the matter...

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Kaiseror Since: Jul, 2016
#61020: Apr 10th 2021 at 8:39:18 PM

What's got France so spooked?

Codafett Knows-Many-Things Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Waiting for you *wink*
Knows-Many-Things
#61021: Apr 10th 2021 at 8:41:05 PM

Interservice rivalries have always felt really artificial to me. I imagine it's like a small handful of higher ups had some grudges, so they felt the need to indoctrinate the younger guys into thinking X branch is lame for whatever reason.

As far as that Marine vaccination business goes, it could be less "buying into conspiracies" and more trying to prove what a tough guy you are.

Just Having Fun
TheWildWestPyro from Seattle, WA Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#61022: Apr 10th 2021 at 8:42:32 PM

[up][up]

Mostly just haunted about how they didn't prepare well the last time a massive ground invasion occurred, and wanting to show their readiness.

Kaiseror Since: Jul, 2016
#61023: Apr 10th 2021 at 8:49:03 PM

[up] So is it just that or is all the stuff with China and Russia making them nervous?

LeGarcon Blowout soon fellow Stalker from Skadovsk Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
#61024: Apr 10th 2021 at 8:50:20 PM

NATO's armies are shrinking and weakening while Russia and China's are growing stronger. France doesn't wanna fll behind.

Oh really when?
TairaMai rollin' on dubs from El Paso Tx Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Mu
rollin' on dubs
#61025: Apr 10th 2021 at 9:07:25 PM

@France and "high intensity war".

It isn't just the memory of WWII:

  • Russia and Ukraine could be at it again - this could blow up in everyone's faces and as France is part of NATO they want to be ready if called upon.
    • From the article: "In December 2020 Facebook and Instagram removed a network of 100 fake accounts linked to the French armed forces after they sparred with Russian-backed ones over the Central African Republic and Mali, among other African battlegrounds where the two countries vie for influence." — so Russia and France may end up quarreling in the oddest f places.

  • China is screwing with shipping routes in the South China Sea - the US can't go it alone, making sure that those routes stay open will require our allies, including France.

  • Iran - if the next fracas happens in the Middle East, Iran will start it. If so NATO, the US and our Allies will finish it.

Edited by TairaMai on Apr 10th 2021 at 10:12:16 AM

I tried to walk like an Egyptian and now I need to see a Cairo practor....

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