That's because Taiwan's military is a bit of a hot mess in general. As in, their anti-landing exercises look like this:
Most of their issues come from the simple problem of being a smol unrecognised state that struggles to get a military cooperation going with anyone. But a lot of their issues are internal as well.
Foreign aid or no foreign aid, it's going to be hard for them to outpace the PLAAF's growth, or respond to every ADIZ violation. With a respectable enough AA/AD umbrella, at least, you can let the trespassers know that taking another step into your airspace proper will lead to a world of hurt.
Edited by eagleoftheninth on Mar 22nd 2021 at 9:35:00 AM
One day, we will read his name in the news and cheer.This is why a suicide command for SAM's would be great.
Give the pilot a brown pants moment when the missile goes after him, but kill it mid flight.
See if he tries agian after that.
Maybe some kind of SAM without a war head designed explicitly for a near miss to do that might be better.
Edited by Imca on Mar 22nd 2021 at 10:22:48 AM
Seems like the issue here is that the two alternatives is either to look the other way which is a problem, or to shoot down one of the Chinese aircraft which is also a problem.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard FeynmanIf someone flies unannounced into your ADIZ, you have the right to intercept them by plane and ask them what's up. If they continue flying and trespass into your sovereign airspace, you have the right to shoot them down.
Taiwan is an unrecognised state, and as such I'm not wholly optimistic that the international community (insofar as such a thing exists) would stand up in its defence. But I think using ground-based air defences to warn off armed intruders (and shoot them down if they do breach your airspace) would be rather morally cut-and-dry for any international observer.
One day, we will read his name in the news and cheer.See the problem with Taiwan is that as a democratic nation, all of their casualties and equipment losses are publicized and happily interpreted by their foreign enemies and domestic detractors and pacifists as "proof" that it's pointless to resist a Chinese invasion.
Whereas China is so sensitive about their casualties that the PLA still has refused to disclose the number of servicemen infected with Covid, and only admitted to losing four men fighting India when even their own ultranationalist newspaper Global Times initially reporter a much higher death count.
Chinese air crews know that. Taiwanese air defence crews know that. Both governments and everyone in the world know that. That's why the Chinese airborne incursions have kept to the ADIZ instead of the Taiwanese airspace proper.
If they do enter Taiwan's airspace, the Taiwanese would pretty much be obligated to shoot them down and hope that their judicious use of force convinces the US to take their side in whatever follows. Because not doing that basically be ceding their airspace to armed hostile warplanes and all the shenanigans they might pull off.
A credible AD umbrella would be a decent compromise. They swagger into your ADIZ with guns out, you holler them and let them know you have them painted. They fly further in and breach your airspace, you pull the trigger. It's not a perfect solution, but it'd be a more economical and survivable one than whatever Taiwan is doing at the moment.
Anyway, article on the Backfire accident: Ejection Seats Activation During Preflight Operations On Russian Tu-22M3 Bomber Kills Three Crew Members.
According to the information released by the Russian Defense Ministry, for reasons yet to be determined, crew were ejected during the preflight operations.
Three of them received fatal injuries, as their parachutes did not deploy in time: “The altitude was too low for the parachutes to work, and three crew members have received fatal injuries when they landed,” the Russian MOD said in a statement. Although not mentioned in the official Russia MOD release, according to a source in the medical community of the region who talked to TASS News Agency,
one of the crew members survived. He’s currently in the infirmary of the medical unit in Shaikovka. In fact, based on the latest updates, the forced ejection cause three crew members to be ejected according to the standard scheme as the commander of the aircraft, sitting on the left hand seat, leaves the plane on his own. In this case, he did not leave the aircraft.
An alleged preliminary report, possibly leaked online, was posted at the Aviaforum site.
Here’s an excerpt translated from Russian:
In preparation for the training flight, after launching the APU and working with the cockpit
At the same time, the system of forced departure of the crew was triggered according to the standard scheme (the commander of the aircraft leaves the plane on his own). When the forced exit system was triggered, four canopy door were dropped and three crew members were ejected. The mechanisms of the ejection seats worked normally, the separation of the crew members and the launching of the rescue parachutes took place normally, but due to the lack of conditions for safely leaving the aircraft (speed less than 130 km / h), the parachutes were not filled.
Three crew members were fatally injured when they fell onto the concrete surface of the aircraft parking lot at high vertical speed. Chairs KT-1M. KT-1M is an ejection seat developed by the Tupolev Design Bureau. Currently installed on Tu-22M3 and Tu-22MR aircraft.
Ejection is carried out in the following sequence: operator, navigator, right pilot, commander. Both individual and forced ejection are possible. Forced ejection of the crew is performed by the commander, for which it is enough to lift the cap and turn on the “Forced exit” toggle switch on the left side of the cockpit.
At the same time, a red banner “Forced Leaving” lights up at each workplace and the EMRV-27B-1 time relay is switched on for the seats of the right pilot, navigator-navigator and navigator-operator, which are set for a time corresponding to 3.6 s, 1.8 s , 0.3 s.
After 0.3 s, the time relays trigger the EK-69 pneumatic system solenoid valve on the navigator-operator’s seat, while the “Readiness” system is triggered on the seat (triggering the arms and legs scatter limiters and tightening the harness) and pressing the limit switch for resetting the lantern cover.
When the “Readiness” system is triggered, the ACh-1,2 temporary automatic machine is activated on the seat, which after 1 s pulls out the combat pin of the firing mechanism.
Among the crew members who died in the incident there was also the regiment commander, Colonel Vadim Beloslyudtsev, who was pilot-instructor on the planned flight.
The Tu-22M3’s crew consists of four members. Two pilots seated side-by-side in front (pilot on the left and co-pilot on the right) and the navigator (right) and weapons system officer (left) seated to their rear. All crew members have KT-1M (Kreslo Tupoleva, “Tupolev’s seat”) ejection seats connected within the ASS (automatic rescue system). A minimum speed of 130km/h (81 mph) is required for safe ejection at altitudes below 60m (200ft) according to “Russia’s Warplanes Vol. 2”, by Piotr Butowski (although our sources state that 140km/h is the minimum speed).
The Russian Tupolev Tu-22M3 is a twin-engine supersonic bomber with variable geometry swept wings. The Tu-22M3 and M3M variants are in wide service in Russia, with over 80 reported in flying with the Russian Air Force and more than 40 in use with Russian Naval Aviation as long-range maritime patrol, surveillance and attack aircraft. Indeed, the aircraft was primarily developed as an anti-ship missile carrier for the Soviet/Russian supersonic Kh-22/32 anti-ship missiles with range of up to 1,000 km (621 miles) as well as for smaller Kh-15 missiles with range of up to 300 km (160 miles).
The latest deadly incident involving a Tu-22 occurred on Jan. 22, 2019, when three crew members were killed when the Backfire attempted to land in bad weather at the airfield in Olenegorsk (Murmansk region); a crash that was also caught on camera.![]()
All the Taiwan military has to do is hold the Chinese long enough for the US Navy to show up. That would only take a few days. It's more about imposing enough losses on the Chinese fleet so that they can plausibly contest every kilometer of ground after they reach shore. The Taiwanese already have an extensive anti-ship missile system aimed at the straight, which is why most of these incursions involve aircraft, not ships. The Taiwan ground forces are already strong enough to pull this off provided the Chinese do not establish air superiority over their own territory. That fleet of F-16s is intended to prevent that. They could use a few more of those.
Bottom line is that the Taiwanese aren't too concerned about Chinese aircraft flying near their island. If a squadron of ships starts heading their way, however...
I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.That’s probably why they’re looking at acquiring improved submarine capability.
I also stand that in many situations Taiwan wouldn’t only get help from the US. An unprovoked attempt to conquer Taiwan is going to alarm a lot of China’s neighbours. I’d expect India, Japan and potentially South Korea and Vietnam to get involved. Potentially you could also see responses from other powers with global/local reach, be that the UK, France, Australia, New Zealand of the EU collectively.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranNo disrespect to any of those nations, many of whom have militaries with sterling reputations, but size and projection capacity is what matters against the Chinese. I don't think any of the others you mention could put even a fraction of the firepower into the combat zone as quickly as the US could. The US Navy is the ally that matters. With them on your side, even China is a paper tiger. Without them, well, I wouldn't bet on the Taiwanese, even with regional support. China is just too big.
Edited by DeMarquis on Mar 24th 2021 at 9:06:34 AM
I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.India has the capability to open up an entire second front on China and has the industrial capacity and population to sustain such a front, so I really wouldn’t treat it as insignificant.
Yes other countries would be “also featuring” side actors in a US lead action, but that can matter. Even covering other global commitments can be a great help at times, which is what a number of countries did for the UK a during the Falklands.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranIf they’re afraid that Chinese military expansion would turn to focus on them after Taiwan I’d expect them to be pretty motivated.
Edited by Silasw on Mar 24th 2021 at 1:25:21 PM
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranWhy would invading Taiwan expand the Chinese military? I would expect it to consume a great deal of it instead (particularly after the victory).
If India is worried about a Chinese invasion of their country, I doubt the status of Taiwan would make a difference to their calculations one way or the other.
In fact, India provoking an invasion of Taiwan by the Chinese might be one way they could protect themselves (never mind how).
Edited by DeMarquis on Mar 24th 2021 at 9:28:12 AM
I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.By military expansion I mean territorial expansion via military means.
It’s not such much that Taiwan’s independence would be militarily valuable to India as that if China is looking to expand its territory by force it’s not likely to stop at Taiwan. If that’s the case it’s better for India to take that fight: sooner rather than later, at a times of its choosing, when the Chinese military is also having to fight someone else, in an area of the world where the collateral damage is less harmful for India.
Feeding the bear your friend doesn’t protect you when it has an infinite appetite, it just removes a potential ally in fighting it.
Edited by Silasw on Mar 24th 2021 at 1:40:46 PM
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranThe US Cyber Command spent 22 days and a 20-page report developing — wait for it — a meme.
Bonus: the veterans at r/WarCollege got into a fight over the entire thing.
They're normally very much on speaking terms.
Edited by TheWildWestPyro on Mar 25th 2021 at 9:55:02 AM
Battle of Takur Ghar,
during Operation Anaconda in 2002.
rollin' on dubs
Read RogueWarrior by Richard Marcinko
.
Now we do have to take it with a grain of salt - but the book details teh stoopid the DOD got up to in Vietnam:
- Losing the boats sent to pickup his team because the CO of the swift boats decided to go hunt charlie.
- Several missions where Marcinko had to go around, over and above his chain of command just to do his job.
SEAL Team Six was birthed because the SEAL teams had become more of a conventional outfit instead of a flexible anti-terrorist team like the SAS.
However this is the same Richard Marcinko who got nailed overcharging the government for hand grenades, so there is a good chance he's embellished his story.
Edited by TairaMai on Mar 26th 2021 at 7:06:06 AM
I tried to walk like an Egyptian and now I need to see a Cairo practor....Question for the historical fiction that I've been mentioning.
The main character is a US naval officer (Annapolis class of 1906) who used to be the captain of his high school's wrestling team and offensive lineman-turned fullback in Annapolis.
This gets him selected to compete in the 1912 Summer Olympics, hosted at Stockholm, in Greco-Roman wrestling heavyweight division. By sheer luck, he managed to get a silver medal.
The question is: would a medal in Olympics help a military officer's career anyway?
Interestingly enough, I also learned that George S. Patton competed in that same Olympics as well, in the field of modern pentathlon and coming in an impressive fifth place.
Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.

Unless they plan to shoot one down as a show of force then SAMs won't stop Chinese incursions into their territory.
Oh really when?